The Construction Site

[VemuKhaham]

no problems with that? ok.

Anyway, just wanted to let you all know that I've included the rules on espionage in the FKo rules guide. It's edited into chapter 1.10 Secondary Resources - Part I, under wealth, if you want to check it out.

[glow=red,2,300]EDIT:[/glow] you may also take average HP, if you don't want to roll. However, once you decide to roll and the outcome is poor, your stuck with it.

[VemuKhaham]

I created this little image with photoshop just for fun and now I have a self-made banner for FKo! I'm not an expert though, as you can see, but I felt like the game could use some 'art'. It's at the top of the FKo rules guide if you wanna check it.

[VemuKhaham]

Racial Traits chapter has been created. It was edited into the reserved post 1.6, so it won't show up as new.

I hope it is balanced, but I think it is. If you see any problems, I'd like to hear of them.

Also, I've added another rule: from now on every soldier will cost 1population, and building a new city will cost 1000population. This is to make population a bit more useful, and it is more realistic anyway.

I'm currently working on Cultural Traits, which will be up soon. It's an idea I've been playing with during the entire creation process and now I've decided to go with them. They'll ensure some difference in the kingdom's focuses, which'll be good I think.

[Tonguez]

I like the racial traits you've presented

4 of the 6 races have Dark Vision which kind of negates the benefit (except against humans and elfs) - so I suppose thats okay:)

Anyway just on use of Arcane Magic, I like the system you've put forward and the ability to create out own spells.
Now my King is suppose to be a Druid and one of the advantages of the Druid class is their mastery of Terrain. Ergo would a school of magic which allowed a Wizard to change the terrain type of a square be feasible? (eg Kujoh's Shaman uses a spell to change the marshlands into Grasslands (or vice versa))

on a more localised scale something like an Earthquake spell (causing both damage and reduction in speed) is feasible but would it work under the current system (combining both the Infliction and Corruption skills into one)

Also with the Druid theme are espionage attacks wherein a terain square is corrupted (eg polluted) thus reducing the income from it possible , or maybe a similar spell which agitates the local wildlife so they attack people (leading to loss of population) . The above mentioned Earthquake is likely to have Economic impacts too

[Fangor the Fierce]

I don't know how it is going to come to be, but I would seriously limit Arcane Magic to that of Battles. Simply put, there is enough to alter the events of the monthly turn with population, income, random events, etc... Adding Arcane Magics to be able to alter those would greatly slow down the play, as well as confuse a few people along the way.

I was seeing Arcane Magic as something that would be grown, and not simply given. With the correct progression of Arcane Studies/Skills/Whatever, you would be given a new Spell. Such as, with those starting out, you would be limited to a few certain spells. They should be basic, and not as catastrophic as earthquakes and such. It should be a progression. To put it to better terms:

With your newly achieved skills, you have grown to harness more power than you thought possible. You can now alter the terrain in the battlefield, causing the enemy to slow, as the terrain fights their advancements. It may also lower their morale, should a successful hit be done in the same round that they are hampered by movement. (First level - you gain access to altering terrain to impede movement)

With some more resources and discoveries, your skills have grown even better. Your terrain mastery has managed to grant you the ability to set up traps in terrain areas where you excel in. Pick two terrain types, and add those to your list. Whenever you have the chance to in battle, you may invke the powers if treachery and trap a limited number of squares that you can control. this could affect troop morale, numbers, or etc, up to GM approval. (Second Level of Arcane Mastery - Wildlife/Terrain skills)

Lastly, your teachings have brought about a new magic. One that is deadly and treacherous. It causes the terrain to open its jaws, and strike all within its grasp. You can now control an area, and cause the terrain to make an additional attack in the battle phase. (Last and highly sought out power of magic - Progression of Arcane Magic - Terrain/Wildlife mastery....

With this system, it is much more believable, as you are growing your powers, instead of wreaking havoc from the get go.... It takes time to gather those kinds of powers, and if this game started with such things, personally, I wouldn't be interested. I was under the impression that this is a growing game, where you kingdom learned its trades, and powers, instead of going out and conquering, you have to learn the basics of everything.....

Just my two cents though, as I am sure there are some that would disagree...

[VemuKhaham]

Well, I'd say combining the effects of magic as given in the magic chapter would be a good idea to make possible. I checked if it can be done currently and I see no problems to do so with the current rules, so when designing spells, you're free to choose both Dispel and Heal in the same spell for example. HOWEVER, in that case the SP cost for that spell would increase rather quickly, as you'd have to add both costs together, and, referring to the science chapter, it might for less developed arcaners be impossible to get to such high spells. But if they can, and you wish to make a spell like that, go right ahead; it would greatly increase the amount of spells thinkable.
Remember also that spells, when you create them, may have any desirable effects that are simply for flavour. If you have a spell that slows and damages enemies, you could indeed make it an earthquake. If you have a spell that fears the enemy, you could say a black cloud, lightning and thunder seem to fold around the enemy troops, making them wet their pants, or you could say an invisible force seems to pluck the very spark of courage from their hearths. All up to you, though one spell concept can only have one 'appearance': if you create one concept you can't say it does its effect this way once and in another way next time.

However, I do think Fangor has a point when he notes it would cause a lot of fuss if arcane magic would be applicable outside of battles. I also think the divine magic does a pretty good job covering all those things you mention.

Fangor: yes, things will start pretty much from the basics in every aspect, magic not excluded, like you describe it.

[Tonguez]

Yes I do accept Fangors point about it adding a whole lot of uneccesary complication, so limiting it to battle is probably wise. I really like the system for gaining spell mastery Fangor suggested too
and the idea of Arcane traps triggered when an enemy unit comes into a trapped square is kewl (say a disease trap used to protect a valubale resource) these might all be areas of research that could be added to Science.

I did expect that Terrain modifiyng spells would be expensive so thats not a problem and now that we can combine effects spell creation might be even more fun:D

Anyway heres an example
Earthquake Spell
Inflict + Corruption
The druid Kujoh calls upon the very earth to rise up causing an Earthquake that inflicts damage of 20 HP to 500 enemy soldiers and reduces their speed by -15ft for 2 turns

SP Cost 39

Damage + 2sp (1sp/10HP)
Speed +30sp (10/5ft)
Target + 4sp (1/100 > 100)
Duration + 3sp (3/turn > 1)

[Fangor the Fierce]

I was looking back, and probably confused now. Arcane Powers are seriously overpowered, if I read right....

A Wizard, with standard 50SP can decimate the whole army in one swipe. Reasoning:

1SP/10HP!!!!!

Now, with all the material components needed to make a standard wizard, its gonna cost you 25 material components. (Much lower than the 700 to make 50hp worth of gnome fighters) The wizard starts with 50hp (again cheaper to go with wizrd than fighters), an AC of 10 (almost the same as gnomes), 50!!! SP MAX TO START WITH!!! (AM I the only one that sees this as wrong?) and a range of 50 feet.....

So, he can walk withing 50 feet, (out of the range of the gnomes by three rounds) and then spend his 5SP to take out the whole gnome regiment!!! Seriously overpowered if you ask me. Can you please explain this reasoining to me? Or show me where my thoughts went wrong... If he misses, he will do the same the next round, with another 5SP, leaving him with 40 left!!!

Also:Vemu: Can you list an associated cost with each of your groups of test groups fr warfare, in your The Rules of Warfare: section? It would greatly add the info I am needing to calculate costs of troops and the upkeep. Also, with your listing of upkeep, do troops count as population as well, and if so, that is increasing the costs of the troops exponentially, in my mind. Or I am confused, which could easily be the case...

The MIlitary section is really confusing to me, as far as how to gain Military Production, and how it exponentially costs you even more to have troops. In your example, I pay 14 for the gnome warrior. That's one warrior. For say, 50, I would pay 700. But, with your calculations, I am also paying the upkeep per month/turn of 700 as well..... Is that what you intended?

[Tonguez]

Again I do agree with Fangor that the 1sp/10HP is way overpowered I'd have expected someting like a 1/1 at the very least (which would change my Earthquake Spell to cost 57sp) imho much more reasonable

[Rikandur]

Heh, DM said that it will be balanced with rarity of Material Component in comparision to other resouces.
And upkeep of warriors, well it is something along the line 1/100 of warriors in Military Resouces per turn. Advice ? You wish to have andarmy, build economy that could whidstand the upkeep first. ;D

Spells ... For me it is looking balanced. Don't forget that everything must be researched first ! It's easier to swarm magus with cheapest troops than to build a spell affecting 1000 troops.
Cheapest Goblins cost 4 Military and 1 Population. All avaible and unlimited resouce.

[VemuKhaham]

Thanks for lending your keen eyes on my work; this is what I was hoping for: others always have a more critical view of something written then the writer himself.

And I think in both cases your absolutely right Fangor. I've changed 1wealth/10soldiers as upkeep to a much less costy 1wealth/75soldiers. I now made this number more based on the upkeep cost for normal population, which is 1food/100population. Wishing military units to be more costy to upkeep but not so ridiculously much as ten times as much, I've made it like it is. So now if you've got 500soldiers, you'll have to pay a reasonable but costy 7/turn, and in much later stages with 10000 men 133/turn, but that'd be reasonable.

I've also changed the Heal spell, Damage spell, Turn undead spell and Unholy Blight spell. I halved the damage (or healing) for each SP, as like Rikandur said wizards WILL be very rare due to the cost of research and the very rare material components. So I want wizards to be powerful, but right now I indeed realised it was a bit ridiculous, also compared to the power of the other spells.

Fangor: I'll put the costs up in an hour.

[VemuKhaham]

Here are the costs, as you asked. I won't add them in the chapter itself, cause there it would be more confusing simply because those aren't soldier concepts anymore, but the entire stat blocks of the units, with multiple soldiers. It would be pretty messy, but here in the construction site I can include them anyway. Hope it helps and everything is clear, and that I didn't make any mistakes :

---

20 Minotaur axe warriors (5base cost, 1population/soldier)
Size: large (+1cost/soldier)
Speed: 40ft/4squares
BAB: melee +6, range - (6cost+ 1iron/soldier)
AC: 10+3=13 (3cost+1copper/soldier)
HP: 20
DMG: 1d4+1
Mount: none
Range: none
Special: powerful charge (+1cost/soldier (per DM's discretion))
Unit Bonus: Infantry
_________________+
Total Cost: 16+1iron+1copper+1population/soldier -> x20=320+20iron+20copper+20population

20 Minotaur axe throwers (5, 1population)
Size: large (+1)
Speed: 40ft/4squares
BAB: melee +1, range +5 (+1/+5, +1iron)
AC:10+1=11 (+1)
HP: 20
DMG: 1d4+1
Mount: none
Range: 80ft (+2)
Special: none
Unit Bonus: Infantry
_________________+
Total Cost: 15+1iron+1population/soldier -> x20=300+20iron+20population

50 mounted gnome sword fighters (5, 1population)
Size: Small (-1)
Speed: 40ft/4squares
BAB: melee +6, ranged +3 (+6/+3, +1iron, +1copper)
AC: 10+1+1=12 (+2, +1copper)
HP: 50
DMG: 1d10-1
Mount: pony (+1mount)
Range: 60ft
Special: none
Unit Bonus: Infantry
_________________+
Total Cost: 15+1iron+2copper+1mount+1population/soldier -> x50=750+50iron+100copper+50mounts+50population

[The second unit of gnome riders has the same stats and costs as the first unit given above]

[Fangor the Fierce]

Thanks for the info Vemu. It helps a lot. As for a few more questions....

The cost is paid each turn, am I correct? If so, then why would the cost of iron have to be paid each turn? I would think that once paid for, you have the shortsword, or whatever item. The redundant cost per turn is not something I would want to see, due to the fact that they have the weapon already. The upkeep could be thought of as keeping it sharp, etc... but I couldn't see how that would be a wise decision. I would simply wait until I wanted to attack, and then buy the weapons.....

[VemuKhaham]

no you must've read something wrong. None of the costs you pay when creating a soldier will have to be paid every turn. So no military costs and no resources per turn.

Instead, you should see the separation between Military Production and Military Upkeep. The Military Production is a secondary resource under primary resource Military, which you can use to buy soldiers, and this only has to be paid once per soldier, not per turn. The military Upkeep is paid for with Wealth, a secondary resource under the primary resource Economy. This upkeep is simply 1wealth per 75soldiers each turn.

[Fangor the Fierce]

Thanks Vemu, I knew I was reading something wrong.

[VemuKhaham]

no problem Fangor

And now it's time for...

[glow=red,2,300]The FKo News Flash[/glow]I've just reorganised the FKo rules guide to allow for two chapters to be placed somewhere in the middle. One is the chapter Cultural Traits, 1.7, which I promised. I finished it, and partly rely upon you to scan it for errors or mistakes, if you would lend a helping hand. Again, it's edited, so it probably won't give a 'new message' sign.

Right now, my next priority is the king creation. It'll be especially discussing kings in large-scale battles, as small-scale is like normal D&D. It'll be edited into the now reserved spot 1.8 King Creation and Rules.

[VemuKhaham]

ok, I just completed 1.8 King Creation and Rules!

However, I don't know if I myself like exactly how it turned out to be with the large-scale king creation. I also have some doubts about the balance of it, so things might change. I would also like to hear what you think of it if you have something to say.

Again, it's edited, so no 'new' sign.

I'm now going to try and finish Fangor's work on events, which I forgot to mail to my pc at home and now I only have it on a pc at school. I'll be able to mail it this thursday and then I'll continue.

All of you may now start creating your large-scale battle version of your kings; if you need any help just ask. Remember though that I'm currently not yet sure if something might change, like the values etc.

[VemuKhaham]

And there it is: Fangor's event chapter. Fangor made nearly all of it, and I edited some of it. Thanks again to you for that, Fangor.

I hope you all like the final result. Comments are, as always, much appreciated.

My plans are now to work on the maps some more, and make the last chapter: siege and naval battles. Once I've finished that, I'm going to create the Kingdom Sheet for you to ease much of the administration work.

And after that, I see no reasons anymore to delay take-off any longer. That's right, so I'd like all of you to be ready with any preparations you might have, like building kings and such soon.

I can say little however about when I will be done with the remaining tasks. It may still take 2weeks or such, I can't say. Anyway, I thank you all for the patience so far.

[VemuKhaham]

Ok I just did the siege and naval battles chapter, so that's probably the last chapter that needed to be added. Now I'm gonna work on the kingdom sheets and the maps. In the meantime I have already been developing some good ideas on what the prologue-game will be all about. Things are speeding up finally, and above all I now have a holiday of a week from school, so expect things to get finished soon, if all goes well.

Please finish your preparations people. No hurry yet, but it'll speed things up.

[Rikandur]

Heh, I will have to device siege weaponry for my goblins too. Chmm, DM ever played Warhammer Fantasy Battle ? Khemri army mixed with Greenskins comes to mind.