Frodo Truder, Halfling Rogue

[roguewolf]

@ Shakes : If you look more carefully, I named my pet rocks... Gollum
( i could always change his name to Frodo Baggins )
I don't believe in potion's, nor do i trust the time expirancy of the adventures. And whats the use of either of those skills without search?
... and don't send many sorces or diseases... please?

@ Udjat : i plan on getting haste on both weapons, by the time I have enough BaB for three attacks, ill be able to do 8x10d6, though thats a full round turn so I'm gonna get improved feint and use drow poison.

@ everyone, What if i take a crossclass of vampire? I get 0 con so i lose anything that hits me <NVM vamp is not a class, its a race

[Moroth]

i know this isn't in this thread right now, but i make poison for myself and Rogue and I'd like to know what items are required for Drow poison.

[TheUdjat]

roguewolf said:

@ Udjat : i plan on getting haste on both weapons, by the time I have enough BaB for three attacks, ill be able to do 8x10d6, though thats a full round turn so I'm gonna get improved feint and use drow poison.

By the time you have enough BAB for three attacks... I presume you mean 2 BAB + 1 TWF, right? That's level 8 as a Rogue, and that gives you a full attack at +11/+11/+6 to deal 1d4-1 (or -2 for your off-hand) for each attack. Add to that the possibility of Sneak Attack in the best possible circumstances (flanking, going first, or otherwise being smooth), and assuming all hits land, that'll deal: 3d4-4+12d6. At average damage, that becomes 7-4+42 damage, or 45 damage to a single person. At the cost of a magic weapon and 2 feats (Weapon Finesse+TWF), a full-round action, and the best possible circumstances.

...On the other hand, I could just cast an Empowered Scorching Ray at level 8 and deal 8d6x1.5 damage to someone, or 4d6x1.5 damage to 2 people. That's an average of 42 damage, for the cost of one spell and one feat (Empower spell). And... I can do it from 45' away, to undead.

I'm not saying your strategy doesn't work, just that it's not the most efficient way to get what you want. The biggest problem with TWF, particularly as a rogue, is that you have to stand next to your target to do it. Rogues do not hold up in combat very well by standing still. With your hit points, the fighter you just sacked will turn around a chop you to little bitty bits for sneak attacking him.

The Drow Poison/Improved Feint tactic is much better, but it unfortunately doesn't stack with your TWF. You should probably ditch it for Combat Expertise if you're planning to do that, so you can grab Imp. Feint in two levels (rather than getting it at level 9).

...Or ditch the whole melee combat tactic entirely and stick to poison. Get a hand crossbow and fire at people from a distance, never bothering with Improved Feint, TWF, or any of that junk. With your dex, you wouldn't even need Weapon Finesse. And a crossbow doesn't suffer from you -2 str bonus.

[roguewolf]

So my TWF is worthless? lol I don't quite understand all of it, please clarify , and where will i put my feats if I go crossbow? I'm also planning on going assassin

[TheZebraShakes™]

I've seen two weapon fighting work for a rogue, but the rogue will need a high constitution for hit points as he will be placed directly in melee combat.

And he will more often than not need another character devoted to doing everything they can to flank with him and setting up sneak attackable AoOs and other situations while helping to keep most oncoming attacks away from the rogue

If the rogue is lacking in either area, it is probably not the best route to go TWF, but if you have those things, you are likely to be a pretty good slicer and dicer on the battlefield. Just stick with the build and see how it goes. Hopefully pump that Con up alot more.

[Moroth]

RogueWolf wants to know how much it would cost him to put a few points into con, or if you could help him with the higher dnd experience and all ( Actually rogueWolf is writting this ) but yea.... click post it Moroth

[Lin]

Yeah, two weapon fighting rogues rock, but yeah have to not die. With my guy around, you'll have someone that can push people around and flank with, so it should work well.

Too bad we're both slow.

Boots of striding coming in at level 6!

[roguewolf]

Boots of Striding! ( i dont even know what they do, once again SRD to the rescue! )

Anyways, did you put gollum into consideration? He's very good at distracting units ( WELL HE IS! )

[Moroth]

I'm also gonna be able to distract units for Wolfy as this is one of the main purposes for my char (high str + nice con)

[TheUdjat]

It all depends on what you want to do. I mean, your stats are arranged to specialize, and your feats and abilities should follow on your strengths, not disperse it among several things. Here, let me run you through a few possible builds.

Two-Weapon-Fighting
If you're going to focus on TWF, you need to accept a number of tactical limitations: Your goal is to get into combat and get Full-round actions to make use of your feats. That's your primary tactic. To make this truly work best, you may want to consider dipping into ranger (favored class is rogue, so no problem). You'll also want to avoid a negative strength penalty, since it'll effect all the damage you do. Being small makes this even more difficult.

Frankly, I don't think your character is ideal for doing TWF. It's probably more dangerous than advantageous. It might give you multiple Sneak Attack damage, but that will probably be very rare. But if you do it, you want: TWF, Weapon Finesse, possibly Two-Weapon Defense, maybe Weapon Focus, etc. You don't want Improved Feint, as that makes feinting a move action, which still eliminates your full attack. Poison is okay, but a melee weapon can only carry one dose, so once you hit, it's spent.

Ranged Attack / Poison
If you're using poison, this is the way to do it. Your strength penalty is irrelevant if you're using a crossbow, and you don't care about damage anyway if you're using poison. Unlike melee weapons, a bolt is expended every time you fire anyway, so that one dose thing doesn't matter. You can also still sneak attack within 30', so there's the potential to inflict some hurt if you get the drop on someone.

Feats you want if you do this are: Point Blank, Precise Shot, maybe even Weapon Focus. But there's a lot more wiggle room with feats (which is good, since you only get 2 right now).

Improved Feint
Improved Feint is a natural tactic for rogues, since it allows you to get that precious Sneak Attack damage. To do it, though, you really, really want to max your bluff to a ridiculous degree. It's still dangerous 'cause you have to sit in one spot if you want to do the combo in one round (move to feint, attack to dish out the damage), but you can always wait a round.

Feats you want: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint. That's the important part. Could throw in Skill Focus: Bluff, or that one that gives you a +2 to Bluff and something else.

---

Personally? I recommend the ranged attack.

[TheUdjat]

Also, what Lin and Shakes said about TWF rogues. They're spot-on.

[roguewolf]

I really rather not stand back and just shoot, seems quite boring. what if i get darktvision and have some way to cast darkness? Could i still do my full round?

[TheZebraShakes™]

To get higher con without effecting much more of the character, Drop that charisma to 14 and use the leftover 4 points to drop into con to give you 14. There you go. 8 more hit points and another +2 to your fort save.

[Lin]

Humorously, darkvision doesn't penetrate the darkness spell.

If you want to TWF, you absolutely have to raise the your constitution. The first brusier you meet will kill you if he attacks you. If you can't take a hit, you can't be in the front line.

[roguewolf]

my cha will go down oh well thats only 2 skills xD
Why not get IT down to 14, since im only upping dex from this way on

[Deekin]

lin said:

Humorously, darkvision doesn't penetrate the darkness spell.

If you want to TWF, you absolutely have to raise the your constitution. The first brusier you meet will kill you if he attacks you. If you can't take a hit, you can't be in the front line.

That's why I'm waiting for Touchsight

[Rojito]

umm guys Blindfold of something or other gives Blindsense to 30ft... combin that with darkness = pwnage. Thus the reason for him having a rock and me having the darkness spell. it was something we setup well before we thought we could find a DM for one of these types of games

Edit: "Blindfold of True Darkness: Price 9,000: You gain the blindsight ablity out to 30ft. immune to gaze attacks and spells or effects that rely on sight. You cannot use vision in any way while wearing the blindfold." No spot checks, but you can see through darkness, use search to find things, like doors or items that need stealing, or people... that need killing... but this is going to be in the confines of a home for the most part, so ranged wont be so useful, its all about his sneak attack at that point...

[TheUdjat]

Darkness grants 20% concealment in an area.

Blindsense allows you to pinpoint where an individual is, but still suffer 50% concealment.

...You're actually worse off relying on the blindsense.

EDIT: You meant Blindsight, not Blindsense. Ignore the above.

[TheZebraShakes™]

One little flaw in the master plan if you will. . .


Rojito wrote

You cannot use vision in any way while wearing the blindfold."

People who designed the rules wrote

The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

Sorry to burst any bubbles, but better that it should come up now rather than in game.

[roguewolf]

My skills before :

STR :7
DEX : 20
CON : 10
INT : 14
WIS : 8
CHA : 16


If I take my cha to 14 my skills will be as followed


STR :7
DEX : 20
CON : 14
INT : 14
WIS : 8
CHA : 14

Pros : Alot more HP, Better fort Saves
Cons : Takes off 1 point of my 2 top skills bluff and disguise

If this is what i must do for a TWF then i will
( shooting poison arrows from a distance really dosen't sound very fun )