Suggestions for KMan's

[TheZebraShakes™]

With the recent talk and evidence of things beginning to slow down here, I was just wondering if anyone had any more suggestions as to what could be done to help draw in visitors and spark their interest enough so that they would be willing to look around and join in some of our games.

Spiral suggested sprucing the place up so that there are no more unnecessary boards to read and visitors won't get the impression that we are an inactive site.

KMan already cleaned most of that up for now.

I was thinking that we could put brief descriptions of the games in the game board text. I know Fangor already did this in the active games thread, but if it was all right there out in the open, people could browse it quickly and see what they might be interested in reading or joining.

That's just one off the top of my head.

I'm not really sure how much we can do, but maybe someone has some bright ideas. We're all geniuses here, right.

[anoba]

Are games dying because they lost players? The respective DMs can advertise for more players with an emphasis on encouraging lurkers and newbies to join.

Personally, I have time for (and would love to join) 2-3 more games.

[Badasterysk]

What about 'advertising' on other boards (like the D&D message boards, etc.)?

'Shakes did have a good point about the boards being 'less cluttered', but compared to any of the other PbP sites (don't worry Kman, just visiting, not playing ) this site is exceedingly less overwhelming.

The campaign overviews are also an excellent idea. Perhaps a link or two to exciting/good/interesting threads/encounters/RPing could help as well.

Also, the fact that this site is free (huzza for Kman!) should be a big draw. It probably wouldn't hurt for a peruser (sp?) to know that out of the gate.

[VemuKhaham]

I say we make a sticky thread called 'Highlights' or something. If someone, anyone (except for the player/dm in question himself) thinks that another player/dm or simply a general situation/scene deserves to be called a highlight, he can post it in that thread. Perhaps there can be a voting every, let's say three months. All the nominated highlights can be voted for, and that way a ranked list will appear of the best things on Kman's according to Kman's people. Newcomers can go there and see all the goodness in one place. You know, as in: show your strong points, not your weaknesses.

That, and it is a general encouragement for everyone to keep up the quality of posting as it is, or even better.

If people think it's a decent idea, I'm willing to organize it. But only if enough people think so, cause it'll have to rely on participation and input, of course.

[spiral]

If you have fewer games their quality and uptime are far higher. Visitors see good games running on a daily basis, and are more likely to stick around and/or get involved. If a game slows down, it's best removed atleast temporarily. Leaving it around just teaches other DMs and players that it's ok to not be daily with things - something KMans was always really good with, there was always an example either being regular, or staying out of it. People used to talk about being in more than two games as something they didn't have time for. These days people try to handle four or more, which is crazy, it just leads to irregular/rushed posts.

Inactive/slow games put off visitors, and breeds other inactive/slow games by example.

I'll get involved with something later this year. At the moment, I know I've got some downtime coming, so I wouldn't want to start anything right now..

[K Man]

In my opinion, the following needs to be considered for improvement:

Item

[/u][/td]
[td]Detail[/u][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]A Digest of Information¹[/td]
[td]Like Shakes, Vemu and Tembo mentioned, an overview of what's happening on the boards today and highlights of what has happened that is worth checking out. Periodic updates necessary to keep information lively. This is a huge project and should not be taken lightly.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Time-Sensitive Displays[/td]
[td]Spiral said it best, a stale board needs to be trimmed quickly to present the image of a lively board that is very active. People don't need to see that something hasn't had a post for two weeks...that's not the internet today. People need information fast and constantly. I can't watch all the boards here constantly so we need to work as a community to trim the dead weight--which we have been doing well-ish on so far. Maybe we can find a code that won't display a board without a fresh (<1 week) post, at least not without an extra click or two?[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Advertising Advertising Advertising[/td]
[td]I wish I had known more about marketing when I began these boards almost five years ago. The name KMan's Adventures is horrible and esoteric. It won't randomly appear in Google searches for online gaming and seems like a 'inside-joke' at first glance, or a selective group of gamers. In truth, we are from from it. We welcome anyone and would gladly like to expand our ranks. I don't think we can change the name of the site (I will research this) so our second resort is to get the name out there. On Wizards.com, on other gaming boards, in voting contests etc. Wizard (the poster, not the company) was good about this but he's disappeared now too.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Interactivity²[/td]
[td]Admit it, you wish this board had more to it. While free, it doesn't offer the cool stuff of some other gaming sites--especially now considering the release of computer-based D&D 4.0. We need some interactivity to draw in a larger audience. I know we can embed Flash in our posts with some scripting, and Flash can be interactive. Even Javascript can be interactive...but this is an intesive process without direction. If we knew exactly what we wanted, we could work towards it as a community.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Logo / Image[/td]
[td]The logo is outdated and while it has been the image for nearly four years, I think it's time to let it go. I can create something to put up there, or we have(had?) many talented artists that can draw something up too. In addition, the color scheme--while easy on the eyes--is it the right choice for the boards? Are there other color schemes we should be including? Gradients? At first glance to an outsider, we might seem stale because we use solid colors that some might find harsh. We should develop an image/logo and a palatte of acceptable colors. I'll happily take ideas, even if hand-drawn.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Mission Statement[/td]
[td]That phrase on the main page should be revised, it's been there for freakin' ever. It should be like a mission statement for an organization, one that makes people go "You know, that's right. Let's see what else is here..." If someone wants to rewrite it, I'm open to suggestion. [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]News Fader[/td]
[td]How many of us pay attention to that damn thing? It should either become what it actually was intended to be, an up-to-date place for information or we should remove it. Perhaps we can use the newsfader to present the highlights of the board? Little snippets that we find particulalry good that link to where it happened? Or just gaming news in general? Again, this is a time-intensive process and would be a considerable project for anyone. (Maybe we can find an RSS feed that will grab news for us automatically?)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Freeeeeedoooooom![/td]
[td]It was mentioned that this site is free, a HUGE draw for most gamers. I don't think it is really made clear to someone that is just stopping by. ProBoards has it slapped all over their main page(s) and they have like a billion boards on their servers now. Maybe we should take the example and at least make it prevalent?[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

I know all these ideas can't be accepted, but the purpose of brainstorming is that we say silly or far-reaching ideas and someone says "Hey, we can't go that far but I've got something closer!" If you guys think the above is possible without changing too much of the core of what we are, I'm all ears and will do my best to make it happen. I would never want to make this place a gamer-MySpace or gamer-Facebook with billions of n00bs pwning gublinz n dargons^**, but I think a little sprucing is definitely in order. Change can be good.

I've got a few resources at my disposal, the foremost being time with the summer vacation upon me. In addition, (I think) I've gotten pretty good at logo and color schemes and website design/coding. There are an unbelievable amount of resources out there and it shouldn't take long to get something cooking. I really like the way the Illustrator maps come out and I think something that colorful would do well to help run battles, keep people entertained and draw in more audiences.

Excellent discussion everyone, really has got me thinking!



More Reasoning:

*1) While we are a text-based play-by-post gaming site and we inherently produce volumes of writing, there is undoubtedly more information than ever to chew through. It may be too much for those that come here casually, find pages upon pages of text, then just give up because it's too much to absorb. I think we need to make the information easier to digest and give casual visitors a quick insight into what we are and what we do. Then, if they stay, they can dig deeper.

*2) Functionality. We really offer nothing over just some dice features and whispers--but those are short-lived and do nothing to engage the senses. I would like to see more interactivity to help reach out to an audience that is gizmo-centric. A map-making function, or more animated battles. I know Japic and I had talked about creating a flash file for the battles where one could play a certain round, battle-to-date etc and see what was taking place without clicking through a series of posts. Some good examples of codes that can be readily integrated into ProBoards are found here. I know we had talked about adding the role-playing element to our poster names, is that something still desired?


^** - That is unless it would lead to being purchased by some corporation for millions of dollars. If that did happen, we're buying an island and gaming full-time or creating the world's first gaming resort...preferrably in the Carribbean.

[K Man]

Ohh...and a character generator. Similar to this;

www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm

Something that allows players to make a PC for the games here, even spits out the character in a post-friendly format. Thoughts?

[spiral]

There's a lot to think over there KMan, some really good food-for-thought. Here is a knee jerk reaction, just for now: I am not sure KMans needs lots of new members, I would rather see it return to its former glory first, and that is fewer, more well-maintained higher quality games. I dont think it matters that KMans is all text and has no flashy graphics. What KMans has always been about, to me, is high quality role-playing that you can rely on being updated almost every day. It has drifted from that and needs to return to its roots before trying to go anywhere else.

On top of that, I can also say that if you could change the name of the site to make attracting a flow of visitors easier and more automatic, that would be good. Also, a visual overhaul of colour/logo may help make it feel less niche and clicky.

I registered in 04, so I have long since forgotten how newcomers feel... but I know I would love to see fewer games here again, so if I wanted to follow them along, I would have something read each time I stopped by, guarantted, regular updates! Masses of games that you're not sure if are active or not sucks, and you dont know what games to get into reading cos they stop and start so often. . etc etc.

That's all for now. Unfortunately I have no skills I am aware of that can help with all this, so I'll just offer my point of view based on four years of hanging out here.

[TheUdjat]

May 21, 2008 10:19:30 GMT -5 spiral said:

There's a lot to think over there KMan, some really good food-for-thought. Here is a knee jerk reaction, just for now: I am not sure KMans needs lots of new members, I would rather see it return to its former glory first, and that is fewer, more well-maintained higher quality games. I dont think it matters that KMans is all text and has no flashy graphics. What KMans has always been about, to me, is high quality role-playing that you can rely on being updated almost every day. It has drifted from that and needs to return to its roots before trying to go anywhere else.

On top of that, I can also say that if you could change the name of the site to make attracting a flow of visitors easier and more automatic, that would be good. Also, a visual overhaul of colour/logo may help make it feel less niche and clicky.

I registered in 04, so I have long since forgotten how newcomers feel... but I know I would love to see fewer games here again, so if I wanted to follow them along, I would have something read each time I stopped by, guarantted, regular updates! Masses of games that you're not sure if are active or not sucks, and you dont know what games to get into reading cos they stop and start so often. . etc etc.

That's all for now. Unfortunately I have no skills I am aware of that can help with all this, so I'll just offer my point of view based on four years of hanging out here.

Though I see where you're coming from, I'm not sure what you suggest is terribly practical.

You say you want KMan's to return to its 'former glory', but what exactly does that mean? It sounds more like nostalgia than an actual lack of something before. The only thing that's keeping the boards from being like they were 'way back when' is that the people running games don't have the time to do daily posts anymore. Even if I only had one game running, I wouldn't be able to update it daily, half because players don't update every day.

I don't think it's a matter of game quantity. We have more games now because we have more DMs, plain and simple. If TZS and I stopped running games, and we went back down to basically just KMan running things - then there you go, we'd be back to how things were back then. But it wouldn't be an improvement.

I think we do need more players, and the recent drop in activity is fairly indicative of this. More people lighten the load, and encourage us to keep going--and let's face it, none of us will be able to do this forever, because real life will invariably rear its ugly head and tear our attention elsewhere. I love roleplaying on here, but it's bound to happen eventually. And if we just stick to the same old crew, eventually we'll just die off.

We do need new people--people like Anoba, Maestro, Tembo, Menatkhufu, and even Ryngo (who is still fairly new ). People that are talented, creative, and enthusiastic to drive games when old timers like TTC and Spiral evaporate into the aether.

That said, I don't think we need flash images or any glitz like that either, but that's probably a biased opinion because at work, where I do most of my posting, I wouldn't be able to see or interact with any of that anyway. I think quality roleplaying and writing has always been our strength, and we should stick with it. But we could do it better and more efficiently, and certain tools for convenience are the way to go, I think.

I like the idea of a 'Highlights' section. I'd like someone to step forward and really be committed to keeping a summary of all games up to date, and I'd like that to be visible to newcomers. I think we should do some advertising, and perhaps change the name of the place if that's feasible and not a huge problem for anyone. I think we need to get organized.

I think it'd also be smart to have some game running that is always open to newcomers joining it. As a DM, I feel this is excruciatingly difficult, but it would give us a standard place to send people and say 'here, try it out, see if you like it!'. But with all campaigns, it'd be tricky to make it accessible to people that don't want to read through the whole grandiose history of it.

I have some ideas on that, but I digress.

In summary, I don't think more people/games is really the issue, but the commitment to those that matter. I like the diversity of games we have now, and I wouldn't want to give that up. I think that variety of systems and storylines makes KMan's stronger, not weaker.

It'll never be 'the good old days' again, because we've evolved beyond that point. But I think the fact that we even have the notion of 'good old days' is a testament to our success so far.

(On a last note, the problem with integrating any of this is that this is a hobby for all of us, and it's our freetime. We don't want running KMan's to turn into a job. But as Vemu has said previously, many hands make for small work. Maybe we can divide and conquer here, get organized and split up the work.)

[Japic]

As usual I have next to no time. And of all things that KMans needs, frankly I think that it needs to be quality of members over quantity of them. I speak especially of myself as a player and a DM. Udjat pointed out very well that life exists and this is just our hobby. Too true, but it is also a hobby I could not easily live without. It could be said that a little daily imagination from this board has kept me sane(ish) all these years. But I digress from my original point; quality of members. I'm a prime example of what's not helpful. I had lots of ideas, lots of participation. As of now I've been on mandatory overtime for a year and a half, my work hours are very busy. As of today new management says that in addition to previous required OT, we get MORE mandatory time. Yah, free hours=gone. I've barely been able to keep up woth posting my PCs, and haven't actually DMed in about three or four months. Life is what kills my membership, and strong members is what this place needs to survive.

But that's just my overly stressed personal opinion. Back to the grindstone. <sigh>

[Fangor the Fierce]

I agree, an up to date highlites section would be good. I had one, a tentative update with some brief explanation of the campaigns, and a relative up to date explanation of the status. It was a hard job, but worth it. I haven't had the chance to update it though, as the games here are on constant hiatus at times. It's hard to update when you can't get an update from the DM's.

Perhaps that news fader line with the info can be changed to quotes from character in the gaming threads. Simple enough, quotes that the game's DM deems as options for the news fader. Hopefully, passer byers will see the quotes, think of the character as interesting, and read more about them.

I don't know, but yeah, there needs a little more changes here.

[VemuKhaham]

May 21, 2008 11:59:53 GMT -5 Fangor the Fierce said:

I agree, an up to date highlites section would be good. I had one, a tentative update with some brief explanation of the campaigns, and a relative up to date explanation of the status. It was a hard job, but worth it. I haven't had the chance to update it though, as the games here are on constant hiatus at times. It's hard to update when you can't get an update from the DM's.

Perhaps that news fader line with the info can be changed to quotes from character in the gaming threads. Simple enough, quotes that the game's DM deems as options for the news fader. Hopefully, passer byers will see the quotes, think of the character as interesting, and read more about them.

I don't know, but yeah, there needs a little more changes here.

Here is perhaps the key; so far, Fangor has dedicated himself almost solely to keeping newcomers informed about what we have to offer. In the end, he was helped by especially TZS and Udjat, I believe, who made great lists of characters. First, these lists get lost among so many other threads, that it seems like they are first made, then archived, never to be seen again except for those who know about them. We need to make a showcase for ourselves. These archives must be made into a museum, so to speak. The good old times can be brought back to life, just not in the way Spiral wishes - I agree with Udjat there.

The second issue with the inefficiency so far is updating problems. Alone, or with two or three of us, no one can ever hope to inventorize the masses of information on these boards, and like people have said, it only keeps growing, perhaps not as regularly as before, but certainly steadily. Such an inventory must be made by the participation of the entire community. I don't read every game, I read only those that I play or DM in, as I also have a life etc. But while I would never be able to inventorize these whole boards alone, I am knowledgeable about the games I participate in, and so is everyone else. If everyone would join a project such as the Highlights thread (or board, preferably), and if the project is done in an entertaining way, with regular nominations and votes and quotes in the newsfader, it will have a potential to fullfill many functions:
- Fun
- Sense of community
- Attracting newcomers
- Inventorize the boards
- Reward and encourage good roleplaying/dm'ing

As I said above, I am willing to work on this. Help and advice is always appreciated.



Oh yeah, and I would also like to put up the matter of the three discussion boards we have outside the games: the Rants, Out of Game Discussion, and the Writings and Scribblings boards. Though I guess it may be hard to reorder them, as they contain so many threads, they seem a little odd. I understand their original intent, but especially the rants and out of game discussions are used without any distinction. It wouldn't be important, were it not that many valuable threads have been put there, stickied or not, that are hard to find as a result. Threads such as the one in which we post our pictures, in which we used to introduce ourselves, the archived campaign thread, the functions explanation (which would sooner be expected in the outdated FAQ at the top of the boards), the map of active Kman users, etc. Those are the threads that, in my opinion, instead of being neglected, would almost be worth each a seperate board for its own right. (though too many boards can be confusing too)

[TheUdjat]

I was talking with Aegea at lunch about this, and she had a suggestion. She's a fairly new person to online gaming, and has frankly been kind of overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of stuff on the board, to the point that she has kept pretty exclusively to the Masks of Nyarlathotep section. She said a sort of welcoming section would be helpful, or even some way that newcomers wouldn't have to see every single section of the boards all at once and not know where to go.

I was thinking a section at the top that is bigger, bolder, and more attention-grabbing than the others that could serve as a READ THIS FIRST area. We have lots of scattered bits of info, as Vemu has pointed out, that could all be centralized and could be very useful to newcomers. The Active Character Thread and Status of Campaigns jump to mind, but we should also have a greatly updated FAQ or some other sort of introductory section.

In fact, it might be smart to consolidate the two out of character sections (as Vemu pointed out, there seems to be no distinction), and move all of that stuff to the top, where it might be more visible. Right now we have our most INactive sections at the top, which is really counter-intuitive.

I dig the highlights idea a lot. But I would be loathe to step forward and offer to do it. Too much work.

[Fangor the Fierce]

I also think a 'out of town' thread would be good, so that you can easily post when you are going to be gone and for how long. It would be the easiest way to check if players/dms are going to be gone, instead of finding a small post on a non-relative thread that says, 'oh, by the way, I will be away for a week...' instead of starting a new thread.

I like the community feel of trying to incorporate more visual stimulation. Reading text can be a little overbearing at times, and I know as DM how hard it is to cut out non relative information from posts. Sometimes it can't be helped. With a little news fader of small quotes, sections of threads, etc... it would more than likely pique interest in what campaigns are out there, and what they cover.

I am willing to work to help in any way I can, so just let me know where I'm needed. Yeah, life's been one hell of a ride lately, but slowly, I am getting back to a normal routine again. Hopefully it will last.

[Japic]

May 21, 2008 13:00:55 GMT -5 TheUdjat said:

Right now we have our most INactive sections at the top, which is really counter-intuitive.

I'm sorry ok? I really didn't mean for my time to dissappear, honest.

I would have considered moving the Shorts before, but with recently active games like Secrets and the Diamond Ring game, it wasn't a good time. I see now that they seem to be silent. If no one's going to be using them, then we can certainly put them into archives. As much as I'd love to run more games/fights (believe me I would), I just can't. So if they're not in use, lets put them away with the other games that got pruned down.

With my current time constraints I can't offer much more than opinions about how to best update our boards. Hopefully this will change someday, but I'm not holding my breath. We're buried.

[VemuKhaham]

So let's make a list of needed forum categories, boards and vital threads. As Udjat also pointed out, let's do it in a good sequence, with attractive, informative and welcoming boards up top. So, from top to bottom:

General information
- How to get started/read this first board (Threads: updated FAQ, Board Rules/code of conduct, Troubleshooting) (disallow option to make new threads here)
- Community/Rants board (Threads: Stickied newcomer introductions*, Stickied Out-of-town thread, otherwise serves as general discussion)
- Campaign Status board (as it is, perhaps with a few improvements)
- Archives and Highlights (As the name suggests. I am willing to work on this.)
- Writings and Scribblings (as it is.)

Then follow the game posts. The DM's shorts has seen busier days, as is apparent from its two legs. Perhaps in times such as these, we can amputate one, and revive it when necessary.

The other games. I like the way they are divided in three boards each, makes you feel right at home in any game once you've been in one.

And that's it.

* I would propose that this player/newcomers introduction thread should be alive at all times and easy to find. We can integrate pictures and descriptions of ourselves in one post, perhaps even making a nice player profile post. That way, newcomers will feel right at home as they should, be invited to make their own profile post, etc. It is also important that moderators come accross as very accessible people, so their profiles should be in the top of the thread. And remember to smile on those pictures, even you, Japic, without the hat.

Anyway, I may come accross as a control freak with neurotic tendencies to organize everything, so if I'm pushing it, let me know. There is something to be said for the cosy chaos that has reigned so far.

[TheUdjat]

May 21, 2008 13:29:11 GMT -5 Japic said:

May 21, 2008 13:00:55 GMT -5 TheUdjat said:

Right now we have our most INactive sections at the top, which is really counter-intuitive.

I'm sorry ok? I really didn't mean for my time to dissappear, honest.

I would have considered moving the Shorts before, but with recently active games like Secrets and the Diamond Ring game, it wasn't a good time. I see now that they seem to be silent. If no one's going to be using them, then we can certainly put them into archives. As much as I'd love to run more games/fights (believe me I would), I just can't. So if they're not in use, lets put them away with the other games that got pruned down.

With my current time constraints I can't offer much more than opinions about how to best update our boards. Hopefully this will change someday, but I'm not holding my breath. We're buried.

Actually I meant the 'Rules', 'Campaign Status Board' and 'Competition' sections. I tend to gloss over them they're so relatively unchanged, but to a newcomer they're the first thing there.

Shorts could be moved, too, of course.

[K Man]

I'm trying to keep up, really I am. So far I have move the shorts to archives and put the bottom boards to the top with some changes; addition of archives and highlights for starters.

Sound about right?

[VemuKhaham]

I'm not sure about moving the shorts to the archives. Isn't it the nearest thing we have to Udjat's suggestion of having a place where constantly, newcomers can join/create/ask for new games? But yeah, if it's inactive, it's inactive; no point in referring to it, or showing it.

Also, great discussion this! It shows that if we want to, we can actually be creative, even if none of us have time. Though I guess it's easy for me to say, cause Kman will be the one to do all the hard work.

[Japic]

May 21, 2008 14:12:33 GMT -5 VemuKhaham said:

Though I guess it's easy for me to say, cause Kman will be the one to do all the hard work.

C'mon now, it's KMan we're talking about! He's never done a hard day's work in his life. Ok, so that's really not true, he works plenty. But I had to take the shot.

May 21, 2008 13:53:24 GMT -5 K Man said:

So far I have move the shorts to archives and put the bottom boards to the top with some changes; addition of archives and highlights for starters.

Are you sure KMan? I can still see the Shorts boards, and the others are still on the bottom. Well, for me anyhow, just FYI.