Themes and Patterns

[TheUdjat]

Themes and Patterns

I should've written this first. Herein are collected various themes and goals I had in mind when designing Venus. I may add to them as I remember ones mistakenly left out, but for the moment, I think these are it.

Others are welcome to add thoughts and ideas, or work with me in further defining some of these thoughts.

Categories:
- Female Dominance
- Numbers
- Water
- Exploration
- Imperialism and ‘Savagery’
- Enlightenment vs. Religion
- Primal Venus

Female Dominance:
Venus is the planet of femininity—the only planet in our solar system, in fact, represented by a woman (unless you consider Earth to be Ceres/Demeter). The symbol for it is the same as the symbol for women, for crying out loud. Thus, it’s been my belief that women should play an important world for the human societies on the planet.

To represent this, I considered the actual Victorian era. In this era, the opposite was basically true—despite a female monarch, men tended to wield most of the power. There was, in fact, an overabundance of women (so-called ‘Superfluous Women’) in England, which served to further reduce their overall importance and value.

I want to try the opposite. Suppose, for whatever reason, there just aren’t as many women walking on Venus? This makes them more important and valued, and gives them a measure of power over men, allows them a greater ability to choose a mate—let that stew a few hundred years, and why shouldn’t society be largely matriarchal? I’m not saying there can’t be male leaders on Venus, but it should be the exception rather than the rule.

This shouldn’t change the dynamic of the era, however—the setting is still set to be modeled after the Victorian era. Men will still be more active in the areas of exploration and conquest, but for far different reasons (not necessarily, for instance, out of choice). Women will have the option to get as involved as they like (though it may still be considered ‘improper’ by the standards of other women), and will certainly be more active and influential in the realms of politics, art, and science (including magic).

Maybe all of that is extremely controversial talk and will upset people, but that’s what I’ve been thinking. I am open to reconsidering it, if suitably convinced to—maybe it’s a bad idea.

Numbers:
As a fan of numerology and alchemy and other obsolete philosophies, I pay attention to numbers. No matter what I do, I tend to edge towards certain numbers being more prominents or important than others, or symbolizing different things.

Venusian Skies gets this treatment, too, and so we're all on the same page, I thought I'd share my views here. My original intent was for the number 7 to be significant, but I think Venus was decided on its own that the number is unsuitable. Three, instead, has become very important--particularly for time--and others, like 4 and 20, have become important. 60 is also fairly important, both as the duration of each Light and Dark period, and as the age in which a child is considered 'adult'.

It goes on--but 3, 20, 4, 60 all tend to be important, and should continue to do so when possible. For instance, there are now 9 Towers (3x3).

Water:
Venus is wet—lots of water, and clouds of vapor hanging overhead constantly. It rains daily (sometimes acid), and the Venusian equivalent of a day is based on the rise and fall of the tide. Ironically, though, travel by water is considered extremely dangerous at great distances, for creatures lurk in the deep ocean that prey on ships.

Water is important to Venus, and thematically so. The world of Venus is as dynamic and fluid as the substance, both nurturing and destroying those that depend on it. Water is often associated with the feminine aspect, thus making it doubly appropriate for the setting.

When possible, this should be considered in the development of Venusian Skies—after all, even the skies are full of water.

Exploration:
Venus is dangerous but beautiful, full of wonder and mystery, tempting many an explorer to their demise. The world is untamed, perhaps untameable—but this only drives explorers to greater lengths to traverse the globe and find out what lies over the horizon.

Even intellectually, mankind is immersed in unveiling new and better technology, and in further defining the capabilities of magic and religion. College of the arcane study magical interaction, transmuting substances and researching everything they can about the world and its functions. This is the Age of Discovery, in more ways than one, and it should be abundantly obvious.

Imperialism and ‘Savagery’:
Perhaps this is simply an expansion on the previous theme. The people of Aphrodite, their provinces, and their immediate neighbors (Ashtoreth and Kemet) are people who consider themselves ‘civilized’—Aphrodite more than anyone else. They believe they are superior, that it is their duty to colonize, spread their precious knowledge, and—to some extent—to subjugate other, lesser tribes.

Not everyone thinks of it in such brutal, arrogant terms, but it is the truth of matters. Aphrodite wields more power than any other nation, and they are not afraid to use this. Aphrodite’s thirst to expand its power is another major theme of the setting, and it should often be contrasted with the supposed savagery of other cultures—but in many cases, the unspoken question should arise: Who is truly savage?
Sometimes the answer will be obvious. More often, it should not.

Enlightenment vs. Religion:
Another related theme. Aphrodite tends to rely heavily on logic, thought, and intellect for its way of life—inventions, cultivation, complicated magical theory, and so on. The Empire has a religion, at least on the surface, but it has largely been reduced to calendar dates and mythology—many scholars suggest that the gods are merely concepts, or primordial forces of magic made manifest, or so on. In essence, they are an increasingly atheistic or agnostic culture, and tend to frown on intense religious belief (even while it forms the foundation of much of their society).

The other cultures, civilized and not, tend to be oriented differently. Even Ashtoreth and Kemet, the other great nations, are very concerned with religion. They fervently believe that the gods are there, they are watching, and they care. Tribal cultures embrace this even more powerfully, and their ability to wield magic through such religious ceremony only lends to their faith (though Aphrodesians, of course, suggest this is merely the form magic takes).

Which side is right? It should never be clear. For all that Aphrodite has accomplished, there will always be things they can never know, and for all that the so-called primitive societies seem to understand religion, they can just as easily mistake a masterful Alchemist for a god.

Knowledge is in the eye of the beholder.

Primal Venus:
Venus is everything and nothing. All things are built of Venus, but Venus is merely the backdrop for the story—or is it?

Venus is something special in my head. The world itself has some vast, uncertain importance in the grand scheme of things, and though many may suspect it, none truly are aware of it. The planet has come alive, some side-effect of the terraforming process, and it is aware of those that walk upon it. Will she be benevolent? Will she strike out at those that violate it? Will she do anything at all?

This is the great, underlying mystery of everything—for only few things on the world of Venus are truly, natively Venusian. Perhaps the world knows this. There is always be a quiet, subtle conflict between that which is native and those that have colonized and invaded the world, some thousand years ago or more.

What exactly Venus is and what role it will play are completely unknown, and I will only seek to loosely define. I have some ideas, but those I may keep to myself—as any individual DM or storyteller should. But the quiet mystery of Venus should lie beneath every aspect of the world, just waiting to be unleashed.

[VemuKhaham]

Female Dominance:
This is the trickiest topic here, I think. The others are fairly straightforward, but to create a world in which gender roles have largely developed in entirely the opposite way is quite a challenge. Of course, there is nothing upsetting about the idea, though perhaps in the world itself you may get male rights movements.

The tricky part is of course the absolute, global aspect of female dominance you're aiming for, since Venus is indeed the planet of femininity. That would mean seven ships with seven distinct cultures all share more of less the same gender relations. Demographically, Earth has more men than women walking around (though the difference, if I recall correctly, isn't that great), and still men became the dominant gender. Therefore, numbers aren't the only factor to be taken into account here, unless of course you're willing to uneven the numbers even more, perhaps having only half the amount of women as there are men on Venus. That could surely be interesting, and might even lead to women having multiple men as husbands, or many men never marrying or reproducing at all.

Another tricky aspect has to do with social classes. Let's take Aphrodite as example: you say you'd like females to dominate the leadership positions, but will the same happen in lower tiers of society: labourers, rural populations, etc? You say men would be the ones most likely taking to adventuring and the like (does that include for example the military, or sailors, or traveling merchants and missionaries etc?), and that women would be looked badly if they would take to such professions. That's of course saying a lot, for example: men are valued more to do hard labor, women are valued mostly if they concern themselves with more sophisticated things like politics and the like. This is likely because I assume that on Venus as on Earth, men are also built physically stronger then women.

However, women have traditionally been confined to the private domain on Earth, partly because of their naturally weaker physique, partly because of their ability to give birth to children. Because of their physically stronger build men have a protective role in society, and as such they have dominated the public domain. The ability to fight grants public right.

Now to a Venusian alternative. Venus may have less women than men. You may even assign the mysterious sentient planet a role in the birth rates of men and women, who knows.

But men will still be valuable for their physical strength; especially on a planet that is so harsh environmentally, that value will only increase. And women still have the monopoly on the ability to become pregnant, making their role as mothers in the private domain likely. I think it is indeed highly unlikely, especially on a harsh planet as Venus, for men not to become the ones to defend society.

The point is in breaking the rule: the ability to fight gives public right. Is that done by merely having less women than men around? Not quite. Women can be valued highly (perhaps for their scarcity, perhaps for some other reason) but still be secluded to the private domain. One can say that has also been the case on earth. It's like putting the most valuable diamonds in the best vault.

But what if women have multiple husbands because of their scarcity? What if many men don't marry and reproduce? It does give women that centrality, as if they were a commodity to be fought for, but not against foreign peoples, but among the men of one people. Having a woman would be the key to reproduction for a man, and reproduction and establishing a lineage could be of great (public) value. A man's reputation could depend on it.

With offspring being of such importance, the raising of those valued children to those fortunate few men having them would be a task of high priority. Perhaps in systems with polygyny (multiple husbands) men would not want their wife to raise their child, as a result of the competition between multiple husbands. They wouldn't accept her raising the children of all these men, making them less uniquely their own. Women, in short, would be released of the always heavy duty of raising children, especially in the higher social classes, where men actually have the time to dedicate to their small ones. Lower-class men may feel the need to have their women raise their own, simply because they have to go out gather food and stuff. Indeed, time to raise children may become a valued item in society and is crucial for a social reputation of a man. "That man can't even take care of his own offspring!" people may gossip. "That poor woman, I wonder why she doesn't divorce from husband #3, cause he has her take care of his own offspring!" others may say. In short, lower-class society would try to emulate upper-class society in the gender roles.

And with more free time, upperclass women would spend the time they don't raise children on public matters. After all, they are valued highly and have the time to do so. Not only would they have power over their own husbands (like a true matriarch) but no longer is a woman valued as to how she serves her husband in the home, but a man is valued by the way he protects and serves his wife. Et voila, there you have an entirely different society, with women dominant in the public domain, both in upper- and, ideally, in lower-classes, and men dominant in their traditional roles as defenders and hard workers, but also ideally in the raising of children.

This female dominance is still based on the men-women ratio, but I tried to work out how it could develop in any given culture on Venus. As always, regional differences may exist, and societies with male dominance too.

Hope you don't mind the length of the post. I at least think it's an interesting, important topic, cause the family and its structure is the building block of society. The above would certainly make Venusian society unique.

[Yakumo]

Also for Female Dominance and Matriarchal Societies, I would suggest looking into some Native American society workings. In spite of what many think, they were and still are a dominantly matriarchal society.

[TheUdjat]

Vemu, it sounds like you're basically saying what I'm trying to say, only you're going into greater depths to justify it. Remember that this is meant to be a broad overview of themes that will be prevalent in Venusian Skies, and not really meant to open debate about the specific instances. It will be likely, in fact, that the people around Aphrodite, Astarte, Isis, and other places will have different social structures--but the idea is that, ultimately, power and rule lies with women.

But this shouldn't be regarded as an absolute. Just as societies in our world weren't 100% male dominant (prior to modern times), so too all of venus is not necessarily female dominant. But the standard should be women in charge (a male dominated society is a good candidate for certain of the 'savage' tribes, making them even more alien and crude to the refined people of the Empire).

The ratio on earth is pretty close, but it's actually predominantly female. Something like 53% female, 47% male. Maybe even closer than that. Venus is likely to be more like 33% female, 67% male--so yes, a much more drastic difference, literally about 2 to 1, as you were guessing.

There could be any number of reasons besides/in addition to the population difference for why, precisely, women dominate society. Some thoughts I've had:
- Polygyny, as you've mentioned. A woman with multiple husbands, an easy lead to a matriarchal society
- With less time spent to hunt/protect/labor, women have a greater opportunity to learn and innovate
- Women are predisposed towards using magic, giving them a significant edge on men, and a natural tendency towards religious roles--another avenue of power
- In caring for children, women are teaching the next generation, who will inherit their views. A daughter will mean the lineage continues, and they will as such be more highly valued.

There could be more. These are just some getting tossed out. The myriad cultures spanning the planet will all have a slightly different reaction to the problem of population and procreation and will develop different solutions, based on their history, their immediate environment, and other factors.

But, in general, we as designers should keep our eye out for ways to enhance the female dominance across Venus as a theme of the setting. We don't have to decide all of this right now, but it's something to bear in mind.

[TheUdjat]

Alright, my fellow colonists. I have a dilemma, and I'm turning to my cabinet for advice.

The Number Seven is causing me problems, and taking a step back, when something so minor is causing me issues, is it not a decent idea to get rid of it?

Let me explain my problems with the number seven. I personally dig the number, but Venusian Skies does not appear to be fond of it. Seven is just not an elegant number for the physical realities of the planet. It doesn't conform nicely to the Cycles or the Tides, and it's tricky to integrate into the history. So far I've only really connected two things to it (The Seven Towers and the Seven Sciences), both of which are fairly easy to undo, or ignore.

But the fact of the matter is, I like the idea of a number of significance for the world. I can't explain exactly why--maybe there's no real reason. But I think it adds an element of flavor I like. It is becoming clear, however, that the number seven just ain't it.

So, what number do you folks think would do nicely instead? As I see it, there are a number of things to consider, most of which revolve around the calendar I've staked out for the world. So let's examine that a little closer.
1. A Venusian Tide, the standard increment of time, is made up of 20 Marks.
2. Five Venusian Tides make a Venusian Week, alternatively called a Fivetide.
3. Three of these Fivetides make up a Quarter, which is literally a Quarter of Dark or a Quarter of Light (depending on the time of the Cycle). Alternatively, four of these Fivetides could be used to make a Third, if we wanted to do things that way--which would incidentally last 20 Tides (matching the 20 Marks in each Tide nicely). This is essentially a Venusian Month
4. A Venusian Cycle is made up of 120 Tides--60 of Light and 60 of Dark. This is Six Thirds (we can call them something else if this is confusing).
5. A Venusian Cycle, being approximately 120 Earth Days, is about 1/3 of an Earth Year. This means that ages in Venus will be roughly 3x the equivalent Earth Value--so a man might reach adulthood at 60 Cycles (20 years old). After 200 Cycles, one might be considered to have entered old age (this is about age 67 on Earth). Few people ever reach age 300.

From the above, it seems to be that certain numbers stand out from the rest:
The number 3 - This is convenient from a design standpoint, as Venusian Cycles are one third as long as an Earth year. So if we want to talk about a 100-year period of time, this is 300 Venusian Cycles. If the number three is significant on Venus, this is a perfectly logical increment of time for legends and myths, the standard 'long, long time'--it is also around the longest anyone lives, so it measures a lifetime.

If we're working with Thirds, Venusian Light and Dark are divided into three segments (tentatively Lightrise, High Light, and Lightfall for the Light Season, and Darkrise, High Dark, and Darkfall for the Dark Season).

The number 20 - a Venusian 'day' is 20 Marks long, and 20 Venusian Tides make up a Third. 20 x 3 = 60, so the two numbers together work very well--60 is the age of adulthood, the length of both Light and Dark, and who knows what else? As such, the number 60 is also important.

Lesser numbers: Four might be important if Quarters are used instead of Thirds--but even with Thirds, it is 4 Fivetides that make up the Venusian 'month'. A Venusian Tide has 4 phases--Low Mark, Mid Mark-Rising, High Mark, and Mid Mark-Falling, thus dividing a day into convenient quadrants. There are, in fact, four Marks between each of those (I sketched out a Venusian Watch, which has 20 lines around it to Earth's 12). Throw in cardinal directions, the traditional 'four elements', and the importance of four can go on. Four major land masses, too.

Six also has a couple of connotations--relations to 60, and the Six phases of a Venusian Cycle (three of night, three of dark). If a Venusian 'week' is a Fivetide, five also gains some recognition... though this could be substituted for something else (though it would need to fit nicely into a 60-Tide time period).

Ugh. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but symbolism is really important to me, especially in designing a setting where magic formulae and erudite sciences are important to the people living there. It's looking like 3 and 20 are obvious choices, but that all the above numbers may carry some importance.

Of course, neither 3 nor 20 are a good number for the quantity of Towers to have. But I could easily make it 3-times-3, and thus nine.

Feel free to ignore this post if it seems to unnecessarily complicated and you'd rather not get into numeralogical significance and so forth. But I tend to get hung up on such things.

[Yakumo]

Why not 5 or 4? Everything you have is just as divisible by 5 or 4 and those numbers are easier to work with than other odd numbers or higher numbers. And if the Number for Towers you are looking for is smaller, than 4 or 5 work out great.

I vaguely recall you wanting to do something with the cardinal directions too, well there are 4 of those.

[TheUdjat]

Jul 16, 2008 12:04:54 GMT -5 Yakumo said:

Why not 5 or 4? Everything you have is just as divisible by 5 or 4 and those numbers are easier to work with than other odd numbers or higher numbers. And if the Number for Towers you are looking for is smaller, than 4 or 5 work out great.

I vaguely recall you wanting to do something with the cardinal directions too, well there are 4 of those.

Four is a nice number for a lot of reasons, I know, but it pans out being more difficult to work with than 3 when talking about Venusian history. Not necessarily for the people, but for me.

The biggest reason 3 is super-convenient is because Venus's 'year' is 1/3 the length of ours. This makes it extremely easy to relate to. "My character is around 16 years old... what's that like on Venus? Oh, just multiply by 3? Cool, then it's 48." By keeping it 3, the numbers that would naturally develop as important to Venusians are easily derived from those that are important to us. For instance, 100 is an important period of time for us--but on Venus, 300 would carry this importance. 400 isn't really as significant a period of time (though it would need to be if '4' is important), though 200 could potentially work in a pinch. 60 (neatly cuts into three, less-neatly into four) is also a nice number, while 40 and 80 don't carry as much significance (40 would be adolescence, though).

I don't want to have less than 6 Colonial ships, either, and it's easier to add more than to subtract some. Most of the ships will be 'lost' anyway (but lost ships mean opportunities for adventure, which is important)

It could be that 4 becomes a number to use for things, but that 3 remains the critical number for the passage of time. It really is far more convenient, mathematically if for no other reason.

Something I need to think about, though. Five is okay, but it's only factored into things because 10 is a really convenient number when designing 20, 60, 120, 300--all divisible by 10.

[VemuKhaham]

Phew, I think I definitily have to admit I fall into the category of those that would rather ignore this. I hope you don't mind, but to me it just looks like any number could be chosen depending on the things you're counting, and almost as if you're forcing a symbolic number upon people inhabiting Venus simply because there has to be one. Perhaps I may be too sobre to understand though, and if you value a numeric symbol, I won't stop you, but I can't help you either.

But to return to the female dominance issue briefly, I was indeed trying to further detail a kind of social structure that would be interesting and that was along the lines of your idea to have less women than men. It's easy to say that generally, women dominate society, but what really is important is how they dominate it. By asking that question, you can create diverse answers for different societies. Otherwise you'll keep stuck in the general notion. But I'll wait until the issue is brought up further ahead in the process.

As an aside, we seem to be checking on different statistics, cause everywhere I look men seem to outnumber women on Earth. But of course, that isn't a huge issue that we need to discuss here.

Hmm, perhaps this post doesn't contain much constructive help, sorry. Hope I can do more when I check up on the next thread.

[TheUdjat]

Jul 16, 2008 20:23:10 GMT -5 VemuKhaham said:

Phew, I think I definitily have to admit I fall into the category of those that would rather ignore this. I hope you don't mind, but to me it just looks like any number could be chosen depending on the things you're counting, and almost as if you're forcing a symbolic number upon people inhabiting Venus simply because there has to be one. Perhaps I may be too sobre to understand though, and if you value a numeric symbol, I won't stop you, but I can't help you either.

Admittedly it is a little obsessive of me. Just remember that I tend to get all steeped up in hidden connections, deeper meanings, themes, and stuff, and that I have a personal fascination with alchemy and related topics. The importance of numbers tends to factor in very heavily, so I innately pay attention to them, pick out patterns and connections, and make something of it anyway.

It's just something I do. Possibly without merit, but whatever.

But to return to the female dominance issue briefly, I was indeed trying to further detail a kind of social structure that would be interesting and that was along the lines of your idea to have less women than men. It's easy to say that generally, women dominate society, but what really is important is how they dominate it. By asking that question, you can create diverse answers for different societies. Otherwise you'll keep stuck in the general notion. But I'll wait until the issue is brought up further ahead in the process.

As an aside, we seem to be checking on different statistics, cause everywhere I look men seem to outnumber women on Earth. But of course, that isn't a huge issue that we need to discuss here.

Checking around a little, it does appear that the international man-woman ratio is about 50.34% male and 49.66% female. Really close. Apparently around 105 males are born to every 100 females, but females tend to live longer (and healthier), so that by old age there are 86 males to every 100 females.

Pretty much right down the middle. We will certainly be doing something more drastic for Venus. I was apparently only thinking of the US statistics initially, where it's about 49% male to 51% female.

Incidentally, during the Victorian era in Great Britain, there was also a greater number of females (in the empire). I mention this as the Victorian era is our target style for Aphrodite (in many ways).

Hmm, perhaps this post doesn't contain much constructive help, sorry. Hope I can do more when I check up on the next thread.

It's okay. This isn't the thread you're really waiting for--remember that this is just broad strokes, a sort of introductory section to put people in mind of what ideas I've got. Integrating them is for later.

The next article going up, Venusfall, will have plenty of stuff for you to engage in. That's where we'll start defining the different cultures--or more accurately, the colonies that will ultimately develop into those cultures. Tons of work and details to hammer out there.