d20 Modern rules and stuff

[Cel]

I made this post, after reading some of the rules book, and realized that... WTF?!

Since Udjat will be DMing, I was wondering if we could perhaps change some of the things? You might want to discuss some of the things that are in there.

I'll start complaining now.

1) So, there's a 40mm grenade... But there is m203? No, A 40mm grenade is not the one you throw in your hand. It's the one you fire from a grenade launcher. Can we add the m203? It's the thing you attach to the M16 or the M4.

There's that M79... This is this gun that's only a grenade launcher.

2) Is it posible to add some realism? When a 40mm grenenade lands next to you, it sure isnt going to just scratch you. I mean, 3d6 damage? What is this?? It's not shadowrun, so you get levels with HP. Meaning that a level 3 character can survive 2 greandes? Something seems weird here.

3) Blast radius... Err... 20 ft? You gotta be kidding me. A frag grenade has a killing radius of 8 meters and injury radius of 15 meters. 5 ft = 1.5 meters. I know it's a d20 game and all, and killing range would be stupid, but can we do somethnig about the damage of grenades and their blast radius?

It seems strange, that I have to shoot 5 grenades to kill one dude if all grenades hit. I'll have to be carrying 1000 grenades just to go through a building.


Well, it seems that a grenade has no effect on high level characters. Perhaps we should keep it at very low levels to get some realism? I know its a fantasy game, but even so, how can you survive 5 grenades that hit right next to you? I'm an Americas Army player, and I just cant see this... non-realism with modern weapons.

[K Man]

First off Celebril, you need to get out more. Someone your age should not know this much about weapons.

But to address a couple of points. Have you tried looking at the D20 Modern Weapons Locker? It's a 200+ page book of nothing but weapons. It may have expanded rules and what not that you're looking for.

Of course, all assuming Udjat allows it. It's his world.

[Cel]

Dont have it. Unless....

Yo, Kauyon! You got the PDF?

[Cel]

K said:

First off Celebril, you need to get out more. Someone your age should not know this much about weapons.

This is what happens to people who play AA. ;D

K said:

Of course, all assuming Udjat allows it. It's his world.

Yep. Thats why I'm asking.

[TheUdjat]

Celebril said:

1) So, there's a 40mm grenade... But there is m203? No, A 40mm grenade is not the one you throw in your hand. It's the one you fire from a grenade launcher. Can we add the m203? It's the thing you attach to the M16 or the M4.

There's that M79... This is this gun that's only a grenade launcher.

First of all, you probably won't need to worry about grenades in this game. At all. Secondly, when you do, the stats for one will be adequate to simulate the game effect for all of them. In other words, the differences are slight enough that knowing one grenade will suffice.

2) Is it posible to add some realism? When a 40mm grenenade lands next to you, it sure isnt going to just scratch you. I mean, 3d6 damage? What is this?? It's not shadowrun, so you get levels with HP. Meaning that a level 3 character can survive 2 greandes? Something seems weird here.

An average person has 10 Constitution. Massive Damage in d20 Modern is based on Con. Thus, if you think it's feasible to roll a 10 or higher on 3d6, it is possible to kill someone with a single grenade by making them take a Fort Save (DC is 15, I think). Even with an 18 Con, you have a chance of dying from a grenade, and that's the limits of human capability.

...until you reach level 4, anyway.

You'll note that most guns can also put your average person in danger of a Fort Save from one hit. 2d6 damage on a typical gun? 2d8 for the heavier variety? It can get dangerous. Far more dangerous than you'd realize from a bland statistic like hit points.

That said, I am vaguely tempted to institute Vitality and Wounds from the Star Wars system, which is a somewhat more realistic system in terms of damage to the self. But it gets to be complicated and tricky to mix and mash systems, and I'm not a real big fan of that. So don't count on it.

3) Blast radius... Err... 20 ft? You gotta be kidding me. A frag grenade has a killing radius of 8 meters and injury radius of 15 meters. 5 ft = 1.5 meters. I know it's a d20 game and all, and killing range would be stupid, but can we do somethnig about the damage of grenades and their blast radius?

No. Deal with it. Most of the time, you won't really have to worry about it. There might be some other rules you're overlooking on blast radius and such, as well - I haven't read that section very thoroughly because, as I've hinted at, grenades won't be that big a deal.

And when they are, it's probably not people that will be on the receiving end of them.

It seems strange, that I have to shoot 5 grenades to kill one dude if all grenades hit. I'll have to be carrying 1000 grenades just to go through a building.

Or you could not use grenades. Still, you're working on simple Damage Vs Hit Points terms, which is not a full view of the rules. Don't forget that.

Well, it seems that a grenade has no effect on high level characters. Perhaps we should keep it at very low levels to get some realism? I know its a fantasy game, but even so, how can you survive 5 grenades that hit right next to you? I'm an Americas Army player, and I just cant see this... non-realism with modern weapons.

Your Con doesn't change much from level 1 to level 20. Granted, your Fort Save does, but there's always a chance of failure, which means there's always a chance a single grenade can kill you. 2 grenades, and the odds get a lot worse, a lot faster. Also, don't forget what hit points actually represent - They are not simply 'how much damage you can take'. They also represent a character's ability to duck away from a blast, roll with a punch, and basically adapt to taking injury to themselves so that it really doesn't seem as lethal. It's your ability to take damage - or get out of taking it - and to deal with having taken damage.

Another thing to remember is that it's rather time-consuming to recover hit points in d20 Modern. There's no healing spells. There's no instant hit points, beyond a d4 or so you can get from first aid. Only Surgery can really get you back instant hit points, and it takes you out of action for a solid 6 hours at least.

You really have to take in the whole scope of the rules. It's more realistic than you think, but also not-realistic enough to make for an interesting game.

Any more questions?

[Kauyon]

Celebril said:

Yo, Kauyon! You got the PDF?

Why do people come running to me whenever they need illegal stuff? I'm trying to look clean, dammit!

Anyway, I'd try to find it on WinMX, but I've been afraid to turn off my firewall lately.

Remember, children, never, ever, ever, EVER download Grokster! That is, if you don't like having your computer clogged up by things you don't know what is.

EDIT: You know, this post looks pretty stupid and silly when placed right next to Udjat's massive explanation on grenades, massive damage, and all that. Anyway, Udjat, it looks like you've got it all worked out.

[Althael]

Anyway, I'd try to find it on WinMX, but I've been afraid to turn off my firewall lately.

Ehm, both on Winmx and Kazaa, weapon locker can't be found.. well, for the time I have searched.

[TheUdjat]

Kauyon said:

Anyway, Udjat, it looks like you've got it all worked out.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

RE: Weapons Locker. Won't do you any good, anyway, for this particular game. At least until I pick it up. I'm allowing only materials I own - Which at present is just the d20 Modern Core Rulebook.