In Game Rules Addemdum 1 - Clerics and Druids

[Wicksy]

Note: - These rules are subject to change and additions as i see fit though these will all be run past players to ensure fair play

OK, these guys have the ability to ruin a game for both players and DMs with their brokeness. You dont even have to try hard in most cases. Therefore i am placing a few restrictions to even things out a little. They are as follows:

1] No spontaneous casting. Too powerful IMO. You want cure/summon spells, you learn them. Spontaneous casting has allowed the cleric in particular far greater powers than they should be allowed. Good fighting ability plus as many awesome death spells as they want? Who needs wizards and fighters eh?

2] Certain buff spells are to be nerfed. There are some combos of spells that can turn a cleric into a heavily armoured fighter with massive spellcasting power. No, thats just wrong! The list will continue bellow:

[Toptomcat]

wicksy said:

1] No spontaneous casting.

What about sorcerors?

[TheUdjat]

Though I'm not in this game, I feel I should say a word for the Cleric (less so for druids). Spontaneous Healing is, to me, more of a concession to keep a Cleric useful for the whole party. It keeps a cleric from being relegated to 'magical bandaid' status, so he can actually do some useful stuff instead of casting 'Cure' all the time.

If you're worried about a Cleric/Druid's combat potential, why not reduce their Hit Die and give them less armor/weapon proficiencies? I think the 'Cloistered Cleric' variant is meant to do this, giving a Cleric less armor profs, more knowledge-oriented skills, and a d6 HD. If you really wanted to go wild, you could bring them down to a 1/2 BAB progression, though that might be going a bit far.

Just a thought. I don't think divine spells are really the problem, but rather the whole package the cleric gets. And since you're not allowing non-Core feats and such (like Domain Spontaneous Casting), I don't really see how automatic Cure spells are going to be a huge deal.

I mean, if I was Rojito, I'd just memorize only enough cure spells for me and tell the other guys to take a hike, and STILL have decent combat ability and kickass spells.

Anyway, just a thought. Take it or leave it.

[Wicksy]

Well, back in 2nd ed., thats what you had to do. You had to budget your spells around how much trouble you thought you were going to get in. If Rojito did just that and ignored the healing, his party would probably drop rather quickly (though a wand kind of negates that need).

I think maybe though i do need to consider the cleric more closely. I dont want to nerf the BAB. The armour proficiencies seem ok to do. I just feel that being able to pack a great many buff spells without the worry of what cure spells you might need is a little over powering.

[Toptomcat]

That was considered a weakness of 2nd edition. Before 3rd, playing the cleric was a chore- 'who wants to play the heal-bot?'
Granted, they are now somewhat problematic in the other direction- but most of the really bad problems with the cleric can be solved by moving Divine Power and Righteous Might up a level each.

[Wicksy]

Good idea...Perhaps also eliminate one or more spells. I believe Shakes discussed it sometime back in a thread of mine. I think then that spontaneous casting would be ok, though i would disagree about the ckeric being a chore to play in 2nd ed. He often had the best AC in our games and always got the random +3 maces that no-one else could use

[Deekin]

wicksy said:

Good idea...Perhaps also eliminate one or more spells. I believe Shakes discussed it sometime back in a thread of mine. I think then that spontaneous casting would be ok, though i would disagree about the ckeric being a chore to play in 2nd ed. He often had the best AC in our games and always got the random +3 maces that no-one else could use

If you need a comprehensive list of things to ban for the Cleric, the Char-Op board has a Cleric Guidebook and a Druid Handbook

[Toptomcat]

There are few things relevent to a core-only game there. Natural Spell and possibly Augment Summoning for druids, of course: for clerics, some hardly game-breaking domain reccomendations: recs for a Strand of Prayer Beads, Metamagic Rods, a dodgy interpretation of the Ring of Sustinance, the obligatory mention of the Divine Favor/Divine Power/Righteous Might 'holy trinity', a smattering of other buffs...
Moving DF/DP/RM up a level each, without removing spontaneous casting, is looking better and better.

[Toptomcat]

So, any final word on this?

[Wicksy]

Sorry....i got side tracked on this issue. I would agree with that which has been posted. We wont eliminate spontaneous casting but we'll shift up the holy trinity a level and eliminate metamagic rods. They dont exist in this world. I need to re-read a few things but that makes things fair i think Cheers for the suggestions!