4th Edition

[spiral]

So I logged onto Amazon this morning and I see 4th Ed D&D books in my recommendations. It's here then!

Anybody know anything about it? Is it too much to hope it's more 2nd than 3rd? Heh, we can dream huh.

:btw - there are so many games running on here these days I can't decide which ones to skim the recent posts of.!! It's BUSY here!

[Deekin]

The books went to print last week.

The Street Date is in June.

As for information on it, EN world has a 4th Ed Info page that covers just about everything we know.

[Wicksy]

WHoah! Havent seen you here for a while! ;D

I refuse to use 4th ed. Infact i refuse to even believe it exists

[TheUdjat]

Well, you know, I'm looking at 4th edition and so far the teasers don't seem so bad. I'd be willing to give it a shot. It helps that I have a ton of gift cards, which would make the books cost nothing.

But seriously, I like many of the rule changes, or at least the stated aims. Smoothing out combat, making encounters a little easier to calculate, etc... good aims. I'd be up for running a playtest on here when it comes out (hopefully something of mine will be near done by June, if not totally done).

[Toptomcat]

It looks like a very different game, mostly for the better- though it looks like some of the changes may have made it difficult to use as a general system for all kinds of things with a minumum of effort, the way 3rd Edition was. Definitely worth giving a look.

[spiral]

hehe, you're all about to get 4th'ed. enjoy!

{logs onto ebay to order a 2nd ed PHB}

3rd ed was a travesty. 4th will erase all memory there was ever anything better...

[TheUdjat]

What is it with you brits and hating 3rd Ed, anyway? I mean, I've seen the irrational loathing of clerics, but aside from that, what exactly do you dislike about it? It is a far more logical system than 2nd, and much more intuitive. It's not perfect, I'll grant it that, but older D&D... Way overly complicated, and for no good reason.

But I guess that's all my opinion. I just don't get it. What was so great about old D&D?

[K Man]

4th is here to stay!

...Until 5th or some fraction of 4th!!

BOO-YAH!

I need to work for Wizards...

I am excited to see it though. They've already been messin' with my stat cards for my minis game, they are now in 4th edition already. You have AC, you also have Defense. The modifiers for stats are now drastically different, a 15 is like a +6 now or something. It's wierd, but I'm a WotC whore so my checkbook is open and I can't wait until June.

And Udjat, there's nothing wrong with Clerics. In fact, if we had clerics in our medical system, healthcare would not be in its current state and guidance counselors would only need to know how to min/max a graduate to be a cleric. The world would be a better place.

I don't know why someone would love 2ed, aside from the pretty artwork and saying "Make your Save Vs. Rods, Staves and Wands".

[Wicksy]

Bah....2nd ed is the way forward. I'd love to run a game of 2nd ed here. Just the rules in the PHB and DMG. Man that would rock. Trouble is, how many people have those source books?

[VemuKhaham]

What I know of 2nd is what I remember from games like Baldur's Gate. It was really weird, with THAC0 instead of AC, which always made me wonder why THAC0 was ever used in the first place. It must be for people who love math above roleplaying, or else I just don't get it.

As for 4th edition, I'm both interested and a bit conservative. I think it'll be more of the same, so I won't spend any money on it. Still, there is always things that can be improved. And when you improve them, there will always be things you wish had remained the same. For example, what I saw when looking at the site, they did a great improvement of the monster manual lay-out. Things like that are always welcome. But if I'm not mistaken I believe they're going to be using a lot of computer software for everything. I'm not quite sure what to think of that, but I fear that it will only, like for example is the case with a battle grid in my group, detract from the game.

[ryngo]

I got a nice tax return this year. (The baby and all) So I just set aside a small chunk for 4th edition in June. From what I've seen there will be a lot that I like about it, but I'm not about to get rid of all my 3.5 stuff either.

The thing about new editions and rules and stuff is that I always take them with a grain of salt, because with a mellow group of players who are used to each other; we just make up our own rules anyway.

Most of what we play is some variant of the actual rules system anyway, so it doesn't matter too terribly if we don't like the whole of it. Take what you like, reinvent the rest to suit you. That's what I say.

[Deekin]

admin said:

4
The modifiers for stats are now drastically different, a 15 is like a +6 now or something.

No, a 15 is still a +2, the other +4 comes from being 8th level.

But if I'm not mistaken I believe they're going to be using a lot of computer software for everything. I'm not quite sure what to think of that, but I fear that it will only, like for example is the case with a battle grid in my group, detract from the game.

The DDI is a completely optional enhancement for the game.
Sure it has a bunch of cool features, like a referance library for all released books, a Mini maker, and a Virtual Tabletop, but it's still optional.

[similar]

I missed 3.0 completely. When I had to learn 3.5 to play here it seemed like a lot of things were more sensible.

I have not been following the rationale for making a 4.0. What are its aims? Also if they accomplish them is it likely they will stay with the version for a while? They seem to be setting a trend for making new versions far too frequently.

[Badasterysk]

I'll go back to 2nd edition if I ever use a D&D system other than 3rd edition. This site is the only place I play 3.5 edition (and that's only because of the SRD). I truly couldn't care less about 4th edition.

Of course, I'm just a grouchy old man who's stuck in his ways.

[anoba]

I'm looking forward to 4.0. All the rules seem a lot simpler. One great example of simplification is the 4 edition DISPEL MAGIC (from enword.org):

Dispel magic in 3rd Edition: 125 lines of text
Dispel magic in 4th Edition: 10 lines of text

DISPEL MAGIC
Wizard Utility 6
You unleash a ray of crackling arcane energy that destroys a magical effect created by an opponent.
Daily * Arcane
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One conjuration or zone
Attack: Intelligence vs. the Will defense of the creator of the conjuration or the zone
Hit: The conjuration or the zone is destroyed. All its effects end, including those that normally last until a target saves.

Compare that with the 3.5 version we all know and love *cough* which is too darn long to quote here.

The only change I'm worried about are the changes to social interaction. Apparently, social interaction will consist of a series of skill checks, somewhat like verbal combat. People who hated 3.x diplomacy, bluff, initimidate, sense motive are going to loathe 4.0 conversations.

[Deekin]

similar said:

I missed 3.0 completely. When I had to learn 3.5 to play here it seemed like a lot of things were more sensible.

I have not been following the rationale for making a 4.0. What are its aims? Also if they accomplish them is it likely they will stay with the version for a while? They seem to be setting a trend for making new versions far too frequently.

Mike said:

Many of the changes we've implemented have been asked for by gamers, or at least are changes to features that people don't like about 3e:

1. Generating numbers for NPCs is like doing (really boring) homework.
2. The game seems to function best at about levels 5 to 12.
3. High level games are cumbersome and difficult to run.
4. Low level games are swingy.
5. The CR system is confusing and produces wonky results.
6. Spellcasters outclass everyone else.
7. Multiclassing works for only certain combinations. Classic tropes (warrior-wizards) need new core classes because the core system doesn't work.
8. Characters have too few skill points.
9. Monsters are unnecessarily complicated.
10. You don't get enough feats.
11. Attacks of opportunity are confusing.
12. Magic items are really important, but it isn't equal. Some items are critical, others are complete chaff.
13. There are a number of weird little subsystems that introduce unnecessary complexity, like grappling.

There's more, but I'm tired, and I have more weird analogies to dream up.

[spiral]

mooohahahha! You're all gonna get 4th'ed !!

[pause]

mwooohahhahaha!!!! nice little consumers.. wizards oVVn u! =p

[Toptomcat]

There's an awful lot of hate out there for something that isn't even out yet. All the 3rd and 2nd edition die-hards ought to at least give play a try before discounting 4th entirely.

[TheUdjat]

toptomcat said:

There's an awful lot of hate out there for something that isn't even out yet. All the 3rd and 2nd edition die-hards ought to at least give play a try before discounting 4th entirely.

It's been my experience that most of the diehards just don't like change. And on the one hand, I can respect that one would not be eager to buy new books and learn a new system every 3 years.

But on the other hand, they really do seem to be trying to improve it, based on the feedback they've received, and produce a better, cleaner, more dynamic game. I like that. What I've read has me looking forward to seeing the finished product. I think it'll be a fun game.

And like I said, I bought relatively few of the expansion books, so it's not like I was firmly entrenched in 3.5 anyway.

I think the game will speak for itself. If some of those diehards give it a chance, I think they'll find it enjoyable. Then again, it could totally suck--none of us have even seen it yet, so we won't know until June.

[similar]

Well that is quite a list of fairly reasonable sounding improvements.
If there are so many percieved flaws in v3 that the only solution is to make a whole new version Hopefully the product produced by making all those improvements will be far more enjoyable. So that bit is great.

I think I'm just skeptical because it is the same company that alter the core set of M:tG every two years to drive sales keep it interesting. The cynic in me sees them doing just what TheUdjat says. Bringing out a new improved version every 3 years. Just so everyone has to buy it. I guess if thats the best way for them to make the most money though we'll have to get used to it.