An alternate Bard

[BluSpecs]

I was looking over at the wizards site and saw this thread on Bards. I thought I might expand upon it for my own use.

boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174269

I'm sort of thinking of the 2nd edition Bard here. One that gathers his spells as he goes, magic is not a natural occurance for him like it is with a sorcerer.

I'm also going for a not-so-sing-songy type here.

More historical for lack of a better term

What do you guys think?

[BluSpecs]

BARD, Tale Spinner
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Hit Die: d6.

Class Skills
The bard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Table: The Bard
––—— Spells per Day ——–—
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Bardic Story, bardic knowledge, fascinate, 2 — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 inspire courage +1 3 0 — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Inspire competence 3 1 — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +4 +4 3 2 0 — — — —
5th +3 +1 +4 +4 3 3 1 — — — —
6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Suggestion 3 3 2 — — — —
7th +5 +2 +5 +5 3 3 2 0 — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Inspire courage +2 3 3 3 1 — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Inspire greatness 3 3 3 2 — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 3 3 3 2 0 — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 3 3 3 3 1 — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Song of freedom 3 3 3 3 2 — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 3 3 3 3 2 0 —
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Inspire courage +3 4 3 3 3 3 1 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Inspire heroics 4 4 3 3 3 2 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 [phone]
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 [phone]
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Mass suggestion 4 4 4 4 4 3 2
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 [phone]
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Inspire courage [phone]


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the tale spinning bard.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A tale spinning bard is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Tale spinning Bards are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). A tale spinning bard can cast spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a tale spinning bard wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass bard still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

[BluSpecs]

Spells: a Tail spinning Bard learns the same kind of spells as a Wizard, up to 6th level. To learn or cast a spell, a Tail Spinning Bard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Int 10 for 0 level spells, Int 16 for 6th level spells). The Difficulty Class for a savings throw against a Tail Spinning Bard's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Intelligence modifier.

Like all other spell casters, a Tail Spinning Bard can cast only a certain number of spells per day (less than a Wizard), and receives bonus spells based on a high Intelligence score. Like a Wizard, the Tail Spinning Bard must prepare and memorize their spells beforehand. Unlike the PHB Bard they are limited only by the number of spells they carry in their spellbook.

Spell limitations: Though they can learn the same kinds of spells, Tail Spinning Bards do not have the time or focus to learn ALL kinds of wizard spells. Thus, they are limited to four of the eight schools (or spheres) of Wizardry. The Tail Spinning Bard, however, gets to choose which schools to learn from. This is reflective of their individual nature, and how they usually chose their own course of instruction rather than being taught by a single master. These schools are fixed from the onset and do not change. Tail Spinning Bards may use scrolls from ANY school, not just the ones they are trained with.

The starting spellbook of a Tail Spinning Bard consist of only 4 0-level cantrips, chosen from the Sorcerer/Wizard Spells section from among their chosen schools. All others must be acquired the same way as a Wizard.


Bardic Knowledge: A bard may make a special bardic knowledge check with a bonus equal to his bard level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)
A successful bardic knowledge check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A bard may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.

DC Type of Knowledge
10 Common, known by at least a substantial minority drinking; common legends of the local population.
20 Uncommon but available, known by only a few people legends.
25 Obscure, known by few, hard to come by.
30 Extremely obscure, known by very few, possibly forgotten by most who once knew it, possibly known only by those who don’t understand the significance of the knowledge.

Bardic Tale spinning: Once per day per bard level, a bard can use his tale spinning to produce magical effects on those around him (usually including himself, if desired). While these abilities fall under the category of bardic tale spinning and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they are activated by reciting poetry, chanting, or retelling an inspiring tale. Each ability requires both a minimum bard level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform skill to qualify; if a bard does not have the required number of ranks in at least one Perform skill, he does not gain the bardic tale spinning ability until he acquires the needed ranks.
Starting a bardic tale spinning effect is a standard action. Some bardic tale spinning abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic tale spinning that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands). Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use bardic tale spinning. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit.
.
Fascinate (Sp): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his tale spinning or poetics to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the bard, and able to pay attention to him. The bard must also be able to see the creature. The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working. For every three levels a bard attains beyond 1st, he can target one additional creature with a single use of this ability.
To use the ability, a bard makes a Perform check. His check result is the DC for each affected creature’s Will save against the effect. If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the bard cannot attempt to fascinate that

[BluSpecs]

creature again for 24 hours. If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the song, taking no other actions, for as long as the bard continues to play and concentrate (up to a maximum of 1 round per bard level). While fascinated, a target takes a –4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat requires the bard to make another Perform check and allows the creature a new saving throw against a DC equal to the new Perform check result.
Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect. Fascinate is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting ability.
Inspire Courage (Su): A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use tale spinning or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself ), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. At 8th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.
Inspire Competence (Su): A bard of 3rd level or higher with 6 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his tale spinning or poetics to help an ally succeed at a task. The ally must be within 30 feet and able to see and hear the bard. The bard must also be able to see the ally.
The ally gets a +2 competence bonus on skill checks with a particular skill as long as he or she continues to hear the bard’s tale spinning. Certain uses of this ability are infeasible. The effect lasts as long as the bard concentrates, up to a maximum of 2 minutes. A bard can’t inspire competence in himself. Inspire competence is a mind-affecting ability.
Suggestion (Sp): A bard of 6th level or higher with 9 or more ranks in a Perform skill can make a suggestion (as the spell) to a creature that he has already fascinated (see above). Using this ability does not break the bard’s concentration on the fascinate effect, nor does it allow a second saving throw against the fascinate effect.
Making a suggestion doesn’t count against a bard’s daily limit on bardic tale spinning performances. A Will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 bard’s level + bard’s Cha modifier) negates the effect. This ability affects only a single creature (but see mass suggestion, below). Suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language dependent ability.
Inspire Greatness (Su): A bard of 9th level or higher with 12 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use tale spinning or poetics to inspire greatness in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet, granting him or her extra fighting capability. For every three levels a bard attains beyond 9th, he can target one additional ally with a single use of this ability (two at 12th level, three at 15th, four at 18th). To inspire greatness, a bard must sing and an ally must hear him sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter. A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells that are Hit Dice dependant. Inspire greatness is a mind-affecting ability.
Song of Freedom (Sp): A bard of 12th level or higher with 15 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use tale spinning or poetics to create an effect equivalent to the break enchantment spell (caster level equals the character’s bard level). Using this ability requires 1 minute of uninterrupted concentration and tale spinning, and it functions on a single target within 30 feet. A bard can’t use song of freedom on himself.
Inspire Heroics (Su): A bard of 15th level or higher with 18 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use tale spinning or poetics to inspire tremendous heroism in himself or a single willing ally within 30 feet. For every three bard levels the character attains beyond 15th, he can inspire heroics in one additional creature. To inspire heroics, a bard must sing and an ally must hear the bard sing for a full round. A creature so inspired gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws and a +4 dodge bonus to AC. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for up to 5 rounds thereafter. Inspire heroics is a mind-affecting ability.
Mass Suggestion (Sp): This ability functions like suggestion, above, except that a bard of 18th level or higher with 21 or more ranks in a Perform skill can make the suggestion simultaneously to any number of creatures that he has already fascinated (see above). Mass suggestion is an enchantment (compulsion), mind-affecting, language-dependent ability.

[Wizard]

Hmm...I'm most concerned about the spell list. At the same time, I'm attracted to a game-breaking idea.

First, I don't think bards should have to lug spellbooks around. But I also like the idea of them being able to learn spells as they go.

My conflicts: Bards shouldn't run around casting fireball. Maybe lightning bolt, but not fireball.

Also, it's game-breaking to impose no limits on the bard's spell list. The limit that makes the most IG sense would be that the bard can know a certain number of spells at a time, + his INT mod. He'd have to encounter those spells in one form or another first, though.

Not sure about the balance of the above---I'm typing from the hip.

[BluSpecs]

Se I'm thinking that he cannot research spells on his own only buy/capture them from wizards spell books.

Maybe the spells are cast like a sorcerer but must be encoutered and"learned first

I agree the idea of a fireball slinging Bard isn't right (he wouldn't get the spell until 7th level at the earliest) somehow but i think that barring them from evocation wouldn't be right either. it takes away from the"look what I found" appeal

I do like the idea of only knowing say... 3+Int spells of each level. This would make spell selection very important....

[BluSpecs]

What about using the "Bard Spells Known table" to determine how many spells a bard could have?

in that case the biggest diference would be rather than a bard spell list, the Bard would have 4 schools of magic he could learn from....

I think I like this idea better....

[Merovingian]

I think with good DMing it wouldn’t need to be a game breaker. It would count on a lot of interaction, most Wizzards aren’t gust going to let some bard fallow them around and learn new spells. With that the DM can limit which spells the bard can have time to pick up on. As for finding a spell book in a dungeon or some such place the book would be like a text book it gives the ideas and formulas, but with out study and some teaching it’s just gibberish. Now if the DM gust throws out spells like candy without thought than it would be an issue.

[BluSpecs]

I'm thinking about putting togather spell list to simplify this whole Idea

They would still cast like wizards but would have more access to knowledge type spells in adition to the normal Bard stuff.

[BluSpecs]

I was looking through my new copy of Unearthed Arcana , (neat book by the way)

and I really like the Bardic sage variant, its preyy much what I was going for

Diffences in a nut shell -

expanded divination spell list + bonus Div spel for each level,
+2 bardic Knowledge,

Spells based on inteligence instad of Charisma,

weaker Music (only persists 3 rounds instead of 5)

I do think the spells known should be done as a wizard rather than a sorcerer.....

what do you guys think?