Rebuilding D&D

[Cel]

i'm working on a campaign (a good one, not like that stupid free-download shadowrun game) and i need some help.

there's ALOT to rebuild in the D&D rules, but lets start here:
i wanna make a low powered and low magic (if any) game. the characters are gonna be low level (not more then 6) and i wanna add some realizm to the game. i mean, what if you're level 1 and you feel like working out to gain str? it's not like you may work out every four level! and i wanna do something about the feat: suppose you want to take weapon focus, why do you have to wait 3 levels instead of just practicing alot with that weapon to gain the feat?

i really need help here. got any ideas about how to make this posible and balanced?

[BluSpecs]

Maybe you should look in to a system other than D20.

maybe Gurps or better yet BRP Chaosium.

BRP is used with the classic Call of Cthulhu game and elric.

The cool part is that there are no levels. Almost everything is percentage based and to improve a skill you must succed at it in the adventure first. Then you roll to see if your percentage goes up at the end of the adventure.

I like the system quite a bit. It's very gritty and magic is optional.

[K Man]

Unfortunately Celebril, I think this goes against the mechanics of D20 D&D.

The use of dice and their random results represents that burst of strength that the weak character can find to lift the falling portculis, the bit of information the dumb barbarian can recall overhearing that the wizard forgot...

It's only through focus and dedication that a character can obtain permanent results to ALWAYS modify those roll results.

In your example of working out to gain STR at first level, that would represent your use of point distribution during character creation. Essentially, you work out to gain STR before you go adventuring. Then during adventuring, you gain STR from swinging your sword around and doing what adventurers do. This is representative of gaining the 1 ability point every four levels.

If you want to increase those abilities at a cheaper cost, then you would almost have to modify the whole ability table. I.E. - Instead of going from 1-25...it would go from 1-100. That way, you can still maintain the seperation between a troll and a 3rd level character that has done nothing but 'work out' to gain STR and now sits at a 22 STR.

I think if you want something different, I think you should try to look into other systems instead of D20. Or develop your own.

PS - On that last note, it's tougher than it seems...trust me.

Others may have a better idea on how to do this, but I maintain my stance of it being an impossibility without extreme unbalance.


Best of luck, I'm interested to see what others have to say.

[Japic]

To be honest with you, I wholeheartedly concur with KMan and BluSpecs.

In the d20 system the gradual growth of stats is represented by growth through experience in the field.

Haing played the old Call of Cthulhu, when you succeeded at a skill, you had potential to grow using those skills. For instance, I would think that working out would do more for athletics, then strength. Your body would be more trim, cut, and in shape.

Here's a thought, perhaps if you could give an athletics synergy bonus to strength checks, or in some circumstances Con checks. And running with the synergy bonuses: Maybe create some new skills, like booksmart. You increase that skill by reading lots of books and other knowledge based stuff on all your free time. You apply a synergy bonus to intelligence or wisdom checks based upon the booksmart skill.

In general that's my rough thoughts, so I'll leave off now. Have a good day everyone.

[Merovingian]

I like Japic idea I think what you’re looking for would be more of a skill based thing. For example I rock climb, at the gym where I work there are guys who work out all the time and while they are very good at weight lifting I don’t know that they are stronger because of it. Yes they are cut and some are huge, but the guys who are big were always big and those who are small will be small (relative to the big) but just as cut and toned. That would be the base stats or attributes. Now their skill at lifting might make them both able to lift comparable weights. Now if either comes down to the climbing wall while their strength will help them some-what, but my ability and training with climbing will allow me to be a far better climber (skill) even though I may not be as good a lifter (skill) or as big physically (Attribute). This seems to me why the skills were so expanded for 3 and 3.5 and adding a new skill to the system seems a lot less daunting than creating a new set of attribute ratings and scales. Don’t know if that helps but theirs an idea. (Basically a long winded way to say I agree with those before me ;D)

[Wizard]

A climber, eh? My brother's friend is a CRAZY climber...one day he surreptitiously set up a cam on top of an overhang next to a building at our school. Then right when lunch started, he grabbed the free end (which was barely sticking over the overhang), pulled it off, anchored it to a tree, harnessed himself up, and started climbing the wall!

It was pretty crazy...until the teachers tried to get him down. Of course, he was the only one who could climb that wall, so it took them a while...

[Cel]

BRP is used with the classic Call of Cthulhu game and elric.

The cool part is that there are no levels. Almost everything is percentage based and to improve a skill you must succed at it in the adventure first. Then you roll to see if your percentage goes up at the end of the adventure.

I like the system quite a bit. It's very gritty and magic is optional.

[/u] [/quote]

i like that idea, but how does it work? i dont have anything else except D&D books

[K Man]

BRP Cthulhu was reliant on dice for determination of basic stats. Usually somewhere between 2d6+6 and 3d6 to determine.

STR
CON
SIZE
INT
EDU
DEX
POW

Then these attributes were multiplied by a certain number to get skills points, and other attributes.

SAN = POWX4
HP = SIZEXSTR/2

Etc.

The skills were all based on percentage and at beginning level, you had something like like EDU x5 to distribute. (Usually gave you around 300 skill percentages to distribute.) You would then buy skill points and you would have extra skill points available from your INT.

For instance, at first level, you could put 50% into Library Research which inidicated you had a 50/50 chance of finding what you needed in a library. Or you could put 75% in a certain handgun, indicating you are a pretty good shot.

Then during adventuring you play with your skill percentages and put a check mark next to each skill you used. At the end of the adventure, you would roll your precentage and if you got over with the dice, you added another d10 of percentage points to that skill.

I.E. - Say you used your 75% gun skill during an adventure. At the end of the adventure, you roll percentile and if you got over 75%, you could roll a d10 and add that many points to that skill. Say you rolled a 7, your gun skill would increase to 82%. If, at the next adventure you used it and then rolled a 63 for your check, you get to add nothing to that skill.

BRP focused much more on Sanity and it's effects on the human mind though...but I don't think you want that in D&D. It was a good system, but not without it's flaws.

You weren't allowed to up attributes (STR, CON etc) so no matter how long you play, your hit point never go above a few HP. (16-20 average) Magic was optional...and also deadly to cast. Most spells left the caster as drained if not moreso than their targets, or left them staring at some otherwordly creature that consumed their drained bodies for food.

Optional maybe isn't the right word, more like 'Why the shit would I cast a spell?'-onal.

Hope that helps Celebril, if you need more, PM me.

[BluSpecs]

But the whole fun of the game was knowing that you could be crushed at any minute ;D ;D ;D



Chaosium recently put out a $10 book detailing their basic system. Showing sanity can be removed from BRP for a non-cthulhu game.

[thrawn86]

Why would anyone take Sanity out of the Call of Cthulhu rules? I mean, that's the only reason that I play it- to make the PC's go crazy. Just ask Wizard...

Another option, though probably not as good, is to check out the Storyteller system from White Wolf (game like Vampire, Werewolf, etc.). It could take a significant amount of jackhammering, depending on what kind of game you're playing, but as far as a less-rules intensive system, it's the best. Besides D6 Star Wars, which has been dead several years...

[Cel]

don't think i've forgoten this.

i'm trying to creat balance in a low powered game.
a low powered game needs low level characters, but if i do that, the PCs dont get many special abilities and mages dont get spells.

i changed the classes so they go only to level 10, i changed the spells to fit in there, i changed some feats.
i'm working on a "book" right now with all that.

do you think it could work? i don't wanna make something that will be boring to play.