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Post by at on May 23, 2012 4:31:44 GMT -5
DM: Are we having weight restrictions and do they matter? You are carrying 76 meters of rope, 2 sledge hammers, and no less than 5 grappling hooks while wearing chainmail - it's quite reasonable to expect your child-sized character to be a little weighed down  A medium load won't be a problem though unless you are fleeing from enemies or attempting acrobatic feats (in which case I suggest your character simply drops that huge spool of rope when attempting them) Ka'lion was built as a second level barbarian - they should have wealth comparisons page 54 DMG 3.5 1,800 gp for everything. 1800gp is the expected wealth gain during the character's time at 2nd level, after expenses. As a starting 2nd level character you only have the wealth gained from the 1st level - 900gp. An easier to read chart is found on page 135 of the DMG - character wealth by level. |
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Post by (George) 3.5./ ZEM ( 4.0) on May 30, 2012 18:41:28 GMT -5
ok, well packing them on an animal was a good option. ya that would be a funny thing to see. rod of rope i don't know if you know the item or not is very cool does a lot of things and takes up less space. He just over packs and yes he will try and find ways to use them if he can. you can never have to many according to him, 4 one will not be retrievable, one my get stolen etc. . "always be prepared" and then have an item for option 22c. and 35g, |
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Post by sageaqua on Sept 3, 2012 19:31:04 GMT -5
That's not how the class system works Joe. Where it is true if I put a point of wisdom for each of the 4 levels as a druid he'd only be able to cast cantrips throw 5th level spell he can use his 6th / 7th, 8th and 9th level spell slots to cast lower level spell he wants to with or without meta spell enhancements but remember even if Ka'lion never improves his wisdom he would gain the druids abilities: shapeshift, a thousand faces, immunity to poisons etc. Remember my cantrip campaign? It was all by the book. My players just stacked feats - sometimes of the same type. You can do that with in the game system. But you never pursued it taking any of the meta feats because you considered the higher level spells more powerful. Which is only true to about fifteenth level after the meta feats will do more damage then the higher level spells. Not all characters are born with a high ability roll - sometimes they need to work at it and a druid monk with a 10 wisdom will have some difficulties but that is no reason they shouldn't try and the area of like spells is equal - create water by a cantrip caster of equal level as spell casters with a 50 wisdom create identical results. Ka'lion will take his first level of druid next level - The gm and I have already talked about it. How the high level abilities help is related to saving throws. High ability adds to the casters level so the spell level is more difficult to save against. So it's no reason not to create such characters - remember our Friend Jeff? He's incompetent as far as ability with math but he loves the subject any way. You have even ask for his help with your own calculator. He's put 20 years of his life into mastering his calculator and he knows what it can do. Truth is I also ask for his help sometimes with math and I do most of my math problems in my head. Limited ability does not mean you can't do it. It only means your results may have their own limitations.
Ka'lion asked the druid about the spellcraft of druids and their language. While riding Ka'lion try's to repair the broken bow - ends up keeping the sting and discarding the rest of it as not recoverable.
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Post by harknail on Sept 3, 2012 20:04:52 GMT -5
Yes, I remember your cantrip campaign and how some players learned to appreciate cantrips and others just left. Everyone is entitled your their opinion and my opinion is that taking a class where your primary attribute is 10 is just silly. For some reason my character shares similar views. Neither will stop you from taking a level of Druid, but Vadania will always consider Ka'lion to be an incompetent druid.
For that matter Vadania has a low wisdom for a druid, but that's not likely to become a factor at the slow pace of an online game.
I have to admit that I'm not looking forward to having two very different interpretations of what it means to be a druid in the same game. It seems obvious that you see druidic powers much differently that I do, or at least that Ka'lion does.
Survival: [dice=20]+7=20[rand=6306485321838409961299910210073491315192775800806418144167400897]
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Post by sageaqua on Sept 3, 2012 22:04:46 GMT -5
In truth Joe Ka'lion will be the more powerful in animal forms and your druid will be the more powerful in spells. An animal that can rage increases their con and strength in a fight and barbarians are faster + he would always be faster in wolf form then a real wolf is. In addition as long as he only changes between druid and barbarian classes - not the current plain but possible he would always have more attacks in a fight then your single class druid ever will. But keep in mind this is not a competition and pointing this out now is not intended to provoke you or anyone else. My point is only two druids in a party is not a bad idea. We will end up filling different niches based on how each of them is designed. Your character for instance would use goodbarry for food and minor healing. Ka'lion would use survival skill and cure minor wounds to get the same resault.
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Post by harknail on Sept 4, 2012 0:46:06 GMT -5
To get animal shape once a day, Ka'lion would have to invest 5 levels into a class he's not suited for. Considering the pace of a play-by-post game, I just can't see that happening. So Ka'lion being more powerful in beast form is meaningless. Maybe I just don't know the bestiary well enough, but I'd expect Ka'lion being better at fighting in human form anyway. A nice big weapon generally works better than small teeth and claws.
I don't like how Ka'lion is bullying Vadania into trying to teach him to be a druid. The gist of which was "Teach me to be a druid or I'll set fire to the tombs and release the demon". At least that's how Vadania was hearing it.
I also foresee a lot of conflicts in the fluff of being a druid, based on Ka'lion stating that he's already in tune with nature, along with babies and animals. That kind of conflict has nothing to do with the rules, but has great potential for reducing my fun with playing a druid. This has me wondering if you are deliberately trying to get other players to drop out, or it's just working out that way.
Given Ka'lions personality, I think the only spell caster classes appropriate for him are Warlock (make a pact for instant power), or to a lesser degree Sorcerer (discovers he's so full of magic he can barely control it). He just doesn't seem capable of the extended study needed for most spell casting classes (druid, cleric, wizard). He wants power and he wants it now.
Ka'lion is your character and you can play him as you wish. But you might want to consider the fun of others while you're having fun. Already one player has dropped because what you thought was fun he thought was incredibly insulting to his character.
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Post by sageaqua on Sept 4, 2012 2:40:29 GMT -5
I'm not trying to spoil the game for anyone. Your druid when he asked to learn insulted him saying I don't want to teach you because I still have a lot to learn. Ka'lion took it poorly. He thought the druid was setting him up to die when a little encouragement was what Ka'lion needed. True and I will not blame myself because Danny had hurt feelings. I have double checked all of my posts. I said nothing deliberately hurtful. He just misunderstood what I said and his character refused to talk to Ka'lion and latter turned on Ka'lion. He felt I was meta gaming and we had talked about it. I tried to reduce any meta gaming I was doing but he is not the type to forgive and forget and it became a problem. Truthfully Joe you have repeatedly insulted my character - when he is trying to fit in better and do the right thing as he sees it. He's wrong, but not malicious. Do to a low chr and an average wisdom it's hard to make him more likable. But I am trying by letting your druid influence him in his own class. But only in the last few posts has the two characters relationship seemed to of improved. I also think talking in character about druids seems to be working out. This is what I was trying to do all along.
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Post by sageaqua on Sept 4, 2012 3:11:58 GMT -5
"You should have points in spellcraft. This is a major game mistake. To learn epic spells even as a druid requires spellcraft and spellcraft is on the druids skill list. There is no reason to have the skill if it is not required to learn spells. I leave this oversight up to the gm to deal with. It's his game.
"Thank you for teaching me about the plaints and animals. Combined with my skills tracking creatures - I should soon learn to identify animals by the tracks they make." said Ka'lion
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Post by at on Sept 4, 2012 4:23:55 GMT -5
sageaqua - again I have to recommend the shapeshifter druid variant I posted to you earlier. It's a far better fit to Ka'lions character, kicks in immediately at 1st level, and can be worked more easily into the game.
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Post by harknail on Sept 4, 2012 12:03:24 GMT -5
I'm not trying to spoil the game for anyone. Your druid when he asked to learn insulted him saying I don't want to teach you because I still have a lot to learn. Ka'lion took it poorly. He thought the druid was setting him up to die when a little encouragement was what Ka'lion needed. |
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Post by harknail on Sept 4, 2012 12:10:23 GMT -5
"You should have points in spellcraft. This is a major game mistake. To learn epic spells even as a druid requires spellcraft and spellcraft is on the druids skill list. There is no reason to have the skill if it is not required to learn spells. I leave this oversight up to the gm to deal with. It's his game.
And epic spells are not even a consideration. Vadania can't even cast high-level non-epic spells |
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Post by sageaqua on Sept 5, 2012 0:39:50 GMT -5
Gm- I'll look at your variant - which book or online site has the full details so I can compare the druids at 20th level? I'm just concerned about the things he looses in the trade. And I was choosing a normal druid because I like the spells and abilities he would learn over time.
"SIZE OF A WHALE!" SHOUTS KA'LION
"your on dry land." says the druid
"Oops!" says Ka'lion
Do you remember the Arabian Knights?
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Post by at on Sept 5, 2012 3:39:44 GMT -5
Gm- I'll look at your variant - which book or online site has the full details so I can compare the druids at 20th level? The shifter variant is in the PHB 2 book. The sidhe stuff is from an old dragon magazine, 339 - to add flavour to the character and also to avoid an overload of summoned and bonded animals. The advancement table I sent you in the PM is accurate for the first 10 levels. Beyond that the shifter gets a plant form at 12 and an elemental form at 16 - the same levels the normal druid gets them. |
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Post by sageaqua on Sept 5, 2012 7:15:48 GMT -5
All right we'll give the shifter a try - I just ordered a used copy of PHB 2 on amazon - it should be here with in the next 14 days. I hope it's worth the 34$ I just spent. But the reviews pointed out things I personally like to find such as feats, spells classes prestige class and histories. All useful info.
I have a number of the dragon mags - not sure about that one. What is the picture on the cover?
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Post by at on Sept 5, 2012 7:38:03 GMT -5
All right we'll give the shifter a try - I just ordered a used copy of PHB 2 on amazon It has a fair bit of content. The shifter variant is something of a footnote though - a page of rules starting at the end of p39. Don't worry about the dragon magazine stuff, it's there to add flavour and variation to the class - the rules you need are in that PM and will probably vary from the magazine as they have been errataed. |
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Post by sageaqua on Sept 5, 2012 8:55:08 GMT -5
noted. page 39 PHB 2
You know what I like most about druids over wizards related shape shifting - druids can maintain the animal forms indefinitely. Wizards can only maintain the forms for a number of rounds. First form Baboon - with a battle ax - damage 1d8 (x3)+2+(2) = 5 to 12 - not bad nice improvement without becoming abusive. +2 ac.
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Post by harknail on Sept 5, 2012 10:07:28 GMT -5
My 3.5 book says that druids can maintain animal form for an hour, which is not indefinatly. It is longer than the Polymorph spell though...
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Post by at on Sept 5, 2012 10:29:10 GMT -5
My 3.5 book says that druids can maintain animal form for an hour, which is not indefinatly. It is longer than the Polymorph spell though... An hour per level per use, so 5 hours at lv5, 12 hours at lv6, 21 hours at lv7, and indefinite at lv8. Shapeshifter druids can use their ability for an unlimited amount of time each day, and can shift freely. Only into specific forms however. A poorly armed baboon is an amusing encounter for a 1st or 2nd level party, it's not a particularly dangerous 7th level character. |
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Post by sageaqua on Sept 6, 2012 20:23:45 GMT -5
All I was pointing out was apes can use tools if they need to. Just how few forms are they limited to? I'm beginning to think to improve to more choices I may need to take the shape shifter prestige class - Oriental adventures.
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Post by at on Sept 7, 2012 3:17:40 GMT -5
Just how few forms are they limited to? Medium sized forms (i.e. a wolves and apes), small flying forms (i.e. a hawks and bats), large sized forms (i.e. bears and boars), large plant forms (i.e. treants), and large elemental forms. The main difference is that shifters don't switch stats with their forms, they just get bonuses. i.e. a tiger, bear, dire wolf, etc will all be +8 str and +8 armour for a shapeshifter druid. I'm beginning to think to improve to more choices I may need to take the shape shifter prestige class - Oriental adventures. Something to consider when you reach level 8. |
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