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Post by harknail on Feb 7, 2017 16:58:43 GMT -5
It's been so long since I started this game that I forgotten I had used point buy. When I added new characters, I gave them the same option I currently use in face to face games:
Standard rolled stats (4d6 rolled 6 times, keeping the total of the highest 3 dice in each roll).
Once you have a set of rolled stats, you may use either the rolled numbers or the standard array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8 at your preference.
This is also the system that was used to create Mika (who had some very good rolls!)
As has been pointed out, this isn't fair to the original 4 characters. And I have to agree.
But considering that these bandits are a difficult challenge, and there are a LOT more bandits to deal with, instead of reducing the stats of the 3 newest characters, I'm going to give the original 4 players the option to improve their stats. And to make up for the inconvenience, I'll give the 4 original players an even better offer:
Any of the 4 remaining original players that wants to can roll stats on this thread. If you like the rolled stats better then your point buy stats, then edit your character to replace the old stats with the new stats. If you roll poorly, or simply like your point buy stats better, you can keep them.
New characters can either use point buy, or roll for stats. If they roll for stats, they can used either the rolled stats or the standard array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8. This provides a safety net for poor rolls, which can be an interesting challenge, but in general are not fun to play.
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Post by harknail on Feb 7, 2017 17:06:46 GMT -5
Sample Dice rolls:
VhRQdXfup_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6 = ?
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6 = ?
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6 = ?
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6 = ?
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6 = ?
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6 = ?
quote this message to see the code for the dice rolls, copy out the dice roll codes, cancel the quote and paste dice rolls into a new reply. That should give you new dice rolls (will check these instructions after posting this).
Yup, the above instructions do produce new dice rolls.1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6
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Post by Jasmine on Feb 7, 2017 17:19:55 GMT -5
This still doesn't really solve the fairness problem. If I roll poorly or even average then we're basically right back where we started, with some players having godlike stats and others having normal ones. Can we just all use the dice rolls of whoever got the best?
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Post by harknail on Feb 7, 2017 17:39:28 GMT -5
I feel it's as fair as your typical D&D game, where rolling for stats is the standard. Having a safety net of your original point buy protects you from you character getting worse by rolling.
Having made several characters using this system, I've found that the rolled stats are usually, but not always better than the standard array.
What was unfair was having the two groups of characters use different systems to generate stats, with one system having the possibility of generating better stats.
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Post by Jasmine on Feb 7, 2017 17:58:51 GMT -5
I feel it's still unfair. To compare—Beth picked class features especially for the purpose of improving her AC, and Otho has the same AC in light armor that she has in heavy armor. Kamon-Do picked the archery combat style, which is supposed to offer the highest attack bonus in the game—but with 20 Dex, Otho has the same attack bonus AND better damage without any investment at all.
And it is never, ever possible to catch up. It's like they have half a dozen or more bonus feats at level 1 just out of blind luck, and the disparity will last for the entire duration of the campaign (which could be a very long time!) no matter what anyone does. It is actually worse than if you rolled 1d6 to determine your character's starting level—at least then the XP curve would eventually get the lower-level people up to the same level as the others.
5e has very tight, bounded math and even just a +1 to anything is difficult to obtain. I can't overstate how valuable it is to have an extra 4 points in your primary stat at 1st level. Normally you can't get that until level 8! It would be like a level 1 Wizard having 4th level spells.
Frankly I'd be inclined to kill off my character and keep rerolling until I get a couple 18s too. I don't want to specialize for a role just to be outclassed in it by a character who wasn't even trying to play that role.
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Post by harknail on Feb 7, 2017 18:19:12 GMT -5
Good points. I will consider this...
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Post by at on Feb 8, 2017 5:44:41 GMT -5
Sample Dice rolls: 14 / 15 / 15 / 13 / 17 / 16 That's a hell of a dice roll - a 57 point buy! |
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Post by kawaylon1 on Feb 9, 2017 1:58:17 GMT -5
I want to keep kamon-do the way she is but would like to see how she could be different.
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Post by at on Feb 9, 2017 8:27:11 GMT -5
Stat rolls, if we go that way. Makes a hell of a difference - i'm pretty sure 4d6 is statistically advantageous (by quite some margin over 27 points) but i've seen many a dice array scuppered by one improbably bad roll out of the six leaving a choice between an oddly handicapped character, or just a weakened one.
9z5b8xtcp_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=16
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=16
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=13
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=14
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=9
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=17
OLD
Strength: 16 (+3)
Dexterity : 10 (+0)
Constitution: 14 (+2)
Intelligence: 10 (+0)
Wisdom: 16 (+3)
Charisma: 8 (-1)
NEW
Strength: 18 (+4)
Dexterity : 14 (+2)
Constitution: 17 (+3)
Intelligence: 15 (+2)
Wisdom: 18 (+4)
Charisma: 10 (+0)
1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6 |
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Post by harknail on Feb 9, 2017 12:28:32 GMT -5
Usually rolled stats (using 4d6) are better than point buy. But not always. I've had a friend who rolled poorly in character creation and ended up with a 12 as his highest stat. He still managed to make a playable character and have fun in the game. But that's why I started offering the standard array as a safety net for bad rolls.
My thought was that letting everyone roll would give everyone already in the game a chance to improve their character stats. But some characters would have better stat's than others. Otho's stats are really exceptionally good with 2 18s, a 15, a 15, and a pair of 12s as his low stat. Keiyanna's stats are more typical of rolled stats are also good, but not quite as good with 18, 16, 13, 12, 10, 10.
I will ask the new players to remake their characters using point buy.
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Post by kawaylon1 on Feb 9, 2017 15:48:39 GMT -5
QI6VK_mbp_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=15
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=13
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=14
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=11
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=12
p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6p_1-6=14
with human traits might be okay1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6
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Post by falconis on Feb 9, 2017 16:29:40 GMT -5
JLKnDycE1-61-61-61-6 =11
1-61-61-61-6 = 15
1-61-61-61-6 = 11
1-61-61-61-6 = 11
1-61-61-61-6 = 15
1-61-61-61-6 = 15
Old Stats
Str 10 (+0)
Dex 13 (+1)
Con 14 (+2)
Int 16 (+3)
Wis 10 (+0)
Cha 12 (+1)
Potential New Stats
Str 11 (0)
Dex 15 (+2)
Con 15 (+2)
Int 15 (+2) [16 with racial, +3]
Wis 11 (0)
Cha 11 (+0) [13 with racial, +1)
1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6�1-6
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Post by harknail on Feb 9, 2017 16:45:43 GMT -5
Rolled stats are usually better than point buy. With racial adjustments you can often get an 18, and if you're lucky maybe even a 20. Which translates to higher AC, better chance to hit and/or harder to resist spells. But it does mean some characters will have better stats than others. Good as these rolls are, Otho rolls are significantly better.
Umm, just noticed that when adding up the rolls, you weren't dropping the lowest die. So they aren't quite as good as you thought.
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Post by falconis on Feb 9, 2017 16:51:57 GMT -5
Rolled stats are usually better than point buy. With racial adjustments you can often get an 18, and if you're lucky maybe even a 20. Which translates to higher AC, better chance to hit and/or harder to resist spells. But it does mean some characters will have better stats than others. Good as these rolls are, Otho rolls are significantly better. Umm, just noticed that when adding up the rolls, you weren't dropping the lowest die. So they aren't quite as good as you thought. I've edited the final results with the new real totals at back. So yeah, not necessarily as good as my old ones in some respect. It is disappointing, though. They are a smidge better, though, so I might as well take the new ones. |
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Post by harknail on Feb 9, 2017 16:54:08 GMT -5
Except that Beth's player convinced me to stay with point buy and I've asked the new players to redo their characters.
This reinforces the arguments that with rolled stats you can end up with very different results.
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Post by falconis on Feb 9, 2017 16:55:53 GMT -5
Except that Beth's player convinced me to stay with point buy and I've asked the new players to redo their characters. This reinforces the arguments that with rolled stats you can end up with very different results. I would agree. I wasn't sure if a decision had been made, so I'll keep the old stats as is then. |
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