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Post by (George) 3.5./ ZEM ( 4.0) on Jul 12, 2014 23:33:31 GMT -5
He is sticking with ka'lion
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Post by (George) 3.5./ ZEM ( 4.0) on Jul 12, 2014 23:56:10 GMT -5
tho he is not giving anything up of his unless Ka'lion asks him and he gets value out of it. otherwise he is not talking to others, and it will only upset him more if they try to talk to him. Right now ka"lion and garrot are his only friends.
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Post by at on Jul 13, 2014 5:32:08 GMT -5
I'll run two adventures, though i'll have to throw things in the way of players to try and keep the time lines roughly equal in the event that the groups run into one another again.
I stopped Ka'lion from running off originally as nobody went with him and I prefer not to run single-player adventures on the side.
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Post by at on Apr 28, 2015 3:44:19 GMT -5
Any fire from the goblins either flies wide or is deflected by Melwyn's shield, and Brennen is able to quickly move away from danger. As he does so he can see that the goblins appear to have been crowded around some kind of entrance to an underground structure. But it explicitly says he learns their combat-related feats, so he should know if they have Power Attack. 
However (as a rule that i've enforced in this game in the past), anything gained from a knowledge check must have some foundation in knowledge a character might reasonably have (augmented by whatever magical or supernatural abilities are appropriate).
Otherwise i'll just have you pick a city for your urban savant and deem his city-knowledge based abilities inapplicable away from home |
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Post by sageaqua on Apr 30, 2015 1:38:14 GMT -5
You may of just lost a player - we will see in the next few days.
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Post by Jasmine on Apr 30, 2015 2:05:51 GMT -5
So far so good. Brennen will circle around, heading behind cloud cover if he can, to try and obscure his position as he retreats. He'll keep an eye on anyone pursuing him, if possible--if only a couple goblins follow after him, he won't worry about leading them back to the party, but if there are more than that, he'll try to lose them. If he doesn't see any pursuit, he'll err on the side of caution. Rules as written Brennen could teleport to a random plane, hear someone sneeze inside a nearby building, and take a DC15 check to learn that they have AC19, BAB +8, weapon specialisation(combat banana), and the ability to spit strawberry jam.
However (as a rule that i've enforced in this game in the past), anything gained from a knowledge check must have some foundation in knowledge a character might reasonably have (augmented by whatever magical or supernatural abilities are appropriate).
Otherwise i'll just have you pick a city for your urban savant and deem his city-knowledge based abilities inapplicable away from home
Incidentally, if aberrations don't count, what creature types do count? That would be important to know, since it has a big impact on where my skill points need to go. |
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Post by at on Apr 30, 2015 3:54:38 GMT -5
Brennan can't see pursuit, but the small goblins are quickly lost behind the trees as he dives low to avoid being followed. While he doesn't think anyone from the camp can see him there is always the risk of passing over one of the patrols - but with the camp so close the risk is unavoidable. It's like a Sherlock Scan thing. You're quickly analyzing the subtle details of their movement and appearance and the way they carry themselves and such and drawing conclusions based on how that adds up with what you know about their race.
To use your example - Sherlock might be able to pick up the subtle details of how a creature moves in combat, but not while they are asleep under a blanket or concealed entirely behind a wall. Nor could he deduce that an individual was an expert in the ancient crane style of martial arts if he had never heard of the crane style in the first place.Incidentally, if aberrations don't count, what creature types do count? That would be important to know, since it has a big impact on where my skill points need to go.
Sufficient contact/study of creatures also add them to his selection - for instance he could devote time to learning the abilities and weaknesses of beholders, he just doesn't start with an all-encompassing knowledge of aberrations.
I'm just trying to avoid the game becoming too much of an exercise in meta-gaming. Takes all of the surprise and suspense out of it. |
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Post by Jasmine on Apr 30, 2015 12:20:59 GMT -5
Brennen has already spent more time studying aberrations than almost anything else. He is only one point short of max ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering), tied with Arcana as his best knowledge skill. He can identify a typical beholder without even having to roll. If sufficient study is the criteria, shouldn't it work on any creature he can identify with a knowledge check? That's what knowledge checks represent.
He wouldn't need to know anything about Crane Style to see that his enemy is taking a defensive stance that allows them to dodge blows more effectively, or whatever. Remember that while the player has knowledge of metagame statistics, the character doesn't--just like Brennen doesn't know in-character exactly what the heck a BAB score or a saving throw is. That goes for his own feats too. He's studied a ritual to summon a celestial companion, but he doesn't think of himself as having the Obtain Familiar and Celestial Familiar feats, he just knows it's something he'd be able to do if he sat down and did it.
Also you need to be aware of them, so you can't identify someone under a blanket or on the other side of a wall unless you've already spotted them some other way.
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Post by at on Apr 30, 2015 14:23:40 GMT -5
Brennen has already spent more time studying aberrations than almost anything else. He is only one point short of max ranks in Knowledge (Dungeoneering), tied with Arcana as his best knowledge skill.
I've gotten into the habit of saying no to knowledge gained from sageaqua's vaguely defined epic-level grandmother and so similarly if there is some aspect of your character's background or experiences that you want emphasised it needs to be on your sheet somewhere.He wouldn't need to know anything about Crane Style to see that his enemy is taking a defensive stance that allows them to dodge blows more effectively, or whatever.
It takes away something that could have otherwise been an interesting puzzle and challenge for the players. Knowing that the boss creature you have never seen before can spit fire, or is vulnerable to cold iron, or has a poor fort save... where is the fun?Back to the game - how does Brennon wish to proceed? Land at camp, or land nearby and walk back? |
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Post by Jasmine on Apr 30, 2015 17:56:52 GMT -5
Brennen will land back at the camp. Using the default is list fine - the alternate list was based on him being from Merebas (as you had given him no other background).
I've gotten into the habit of saying no to knowledge gained from sageaqua's vaguely defined epic-level grandmother and so similarly if there is some aspect of your character's background or experiences that you want emphasised it needs to be on your sheet somewhere.
One thing I definitely envision for him is that he's a free spirit, driven by wanderlust and the thrill of exploration. He's traveled to many different places all around the world, had lots of adventures, and heard lots of stories. Mechanically, this is represented in his Chaotic Good alignment (for the value he places in freedom) and his Collector of Stories skill trick and Lore ability (representing the wide range of miscellaneous lore and legends he's picked up in his journeys).
He also studied under a wandering philosopher, with whom he shared many of his travels. (A traditional apprenticeship ends at 6th level, so he would have spent a majority of his adventuring career so far under his mentor's tutelage.) The philosopher taught him that the greatest strength is knowledge. He showed Brennen meditative techniques to strengthen his mind, and tutored him in many knowledge skills, plus Spellcraft and Sense Motive (although Brennen never much took to Sense Motive). I bet the philosopher was a Bardic Sage with Urban Savant levels--Bards are often wanderers, and they have good Will saves and all the appropriate class skills, plus bardic knowledge.
Religion-wise, he pays homage to the Raptoran pantheon, especially Tuilviel Glithien, the Chaotic Good Raptoran goddess of the night. It's a thematic tie between his race, his alignment, and his darkness ability, so it works out nicely.
There's also the interesting fact that he has the ability to gain a familiar, but he doesn't have one yet. After tossing this around a bit, I think he met an eladrin in his travels and became friends with her, and she gave him a ritual that he could use to summon her again; however, when he tried to perform the ritual, he couldn't get it right. Next level, he's going to study it more closely, taking ranks in Knowledge (The Planes), and with his improved magical power and knowledge he should be able to succeed. This way he can have a rapport with his familiar from the start.
Brennen's knowledge skills are primarily devoted to identifying creatures and their strengths and weaknesses--his mentor taught him to know thy enemy. He's studied all kinds of creatures and read all the bestiaries he could get his hands on. When building the character, I tried to spread the skill ranks around as much as I could, but there's only so many skill points to go around. The Paragnostic Apostle class emphasizes Arcana and Religion, while Urban Savant emphasizes Dungeoneering, Local, and Nature, so I gave him some ranks in all of those. If our adaptation of Urban Savant doesn't include Dungeoneering, though, then the extra ranks in Dungeoneering are something of a plothole, as they're supposed to represent the standard Urban Savant training...if aberrations (and I guess oozes) aren't included, he'd probably have that extra training in a different skill.
I just find it uncomfortably meta-gamey, it's fine when used against regular encounters but it sucks all the mystery out of special encounters. It takes away something that could have otherwise been an interesting puzzle and challenge for the players. Knowing that the boss creature you have never seen before can spit fire, or is vulnerable to cold iron, or has a poor fort save... where is the fun?
*shrug*
Characters have ways to gain information. Knowledge is just how non-mages do it. If you think the ability doesn't make sense without magic to back up seemingly implausible knowledge, we could have Brennen swap out one of his least invocations for Otherworldly Whispers (possibly retraining it next level)? That's a pretty plausible mechanism by which a character could gain knowledge he wouldn't otherwise have--it whispers the secrets of the universe directly into his ears. We could even re-work Urban Savant around it, so that it works against constructs, dragons, magical beasts, outsiders, elementals, and undead--the creature types that Otherworldly Whispers gives a bonus to knowledge checks against--and flavor the ability as supernatural.
Personally, I like being able to gain information. Strategy and tactics are some of my favorite parts of the game. |
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Post by at on Apr 30, 2015 18:30:12 GMT -5
Well - we'll see how it goes for now using the basic cityscape rules. If it actually interferes with the game we'll come back to it, and NPCs are off limits because I don't want to calculate saves, work out feats, etc for the hundreds of random guards, travellers, hirelings, and shop keepers you encounter |
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Post by Jasmine on Apr 30, 2015 18:39:53 GMT -5
NPCs are off limits because I don't want to calculate saves, work out feats, etc for the hundreds of random guards, travellers, hirelings, and shop keepers you encounter Fair enough. XD |
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Post by harknail on May 1, 2015 0:38:36 GMT -5
How about if we assume he gathers this information, just to keep his skills honed, but since it's not relevant to GM doesn't have to make it up :-)
It could be handy to identify which NPC's are in our league and would be able to pull their weight if invited to join the group. Not that we don't already get nice hints along those lines already.
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Post by Jasmine on May 1, 2015 0:58:01 GMT -5
Worth noting that anyone can make a Sense Motive check as a standard action to assess how powerful an opponent would be in combat, based on their CR (and modified based on your typical attack routine, e.g. an enemy immune to sneak attacks would ping as more difficult if you are a Rogue). It's imprecise, and they can make an opposed Bluff check to try and fool you into thinking they're tougher or weaker than they really are, but it's a thing that you can do.
There's even a feat, Combat Intuition, that lets you make the check as a free action, gives you a +4 bonus, and makes the results more accurate. So you could scope out all of your enemies to see how strong they are as soon as the fight starts. It's kind of nifty. It's the sort of thing a skittish type like Ka'lion would probably enjoy--it lets you know if you should run or fight.
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Post by at on May 1, 2015 3:25:50 GMT -5
It could be handy to identify which NPC's are in our league and would be able to pull their weight if invited to join the group. Not that we don't already get nice hints along those lines already. NPCs, like the bosses, are levelled up/down to match the characters if recruited. |
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