CLOSED - The Idiot's Guide to Being Evil

[TheZebraShakes™]

If anyone is ever interested in joining these evil bastards in creating their own thieves' guild, then please let me know.

There's always room for more players, whether it be for only a short stint in one of the missions, or for extended play, exploring the city and working to screw people over by any and all means necessary.

Because there's no real plots other than the ones that the characters help to unfold and build up, and the primary goal is currently to work toward founding a guild, it is an easy game to jump into and there isn't any expectation that you should possess any knowledge outside of what your character will already know.

So if anyone has any current interest in joining, or will one day find their game load running low, have a look at what's been going on and send word back if you want to take a stab at it (no pun intended, I swear)

If any of the current players would like to throw in their two cents as to what's up or the types of characters that would serve well, that might help out.m

[Wicksy]

I could be tempted seeing is Matrox is currently dead.... I'll have a read then get back to you.

[TheZebraShakes™]

Well, let me know. Also, if anyone is interested in running any type of NPCs, that is something which we could also work out when the time arises. There's likely to be a lot to run into in the big city, and rather than me playing them all, it might be nice to have a mixture of different voices.

I know everyone's either extremely busy with real life or is already in a zillion games around here, so I'm not asking anyone to commit themselves to the game if they can't, but if someone wants some sort of role, the options are there.

Question, was reading up and you said that you'd have to clear anything from an unusual source. Was wondering if you allow the Tome of Magic. Since this is an evilish game, was thinking about the Shadowcaster. Never seen anyone play it before so thought it'd be interesting. However, they have all sorts of new rules for their class, so I wanted to ask before thinking about it too much.m

[TheZebraShakes™]

I'll have to look over it tonight and then let you know. It's been awhile since I've looked at the class. I know that there were some problems, but when I read it, I'll try to sort through them and get back to you.

[Deekin]

thezebrashakes said:

I'll have to look over it tonight and then let you know. It's been awhile since I've looked at the class. I know that there were some problems, but when I read it, I'll try to sort through them and get back to you.

If anything, shadowcasters are underpowered. I had one in a party from level 1-7th. He had a hard time keeping up with the mage or cleric, not to mention the swordsage.

Hmm. Yeah, I was wondering about their ability to hold their own. Just doesn't seem like they get enough to compare to that of a sorcerer/wizard.

Have you seen either the Truenamer or the Binder in action, Deekin? Just curious on their relative power also.

TZS, also was wondering on your limitations on the Tome of Battle too.

[TheZebraShakes™]

Most of Tome of Battle is alright, just let me know what you're considering.

The weakness of the shadowcaster was my primary concern, which was why i wanted to take another look at it. And well, nothing's changed. It's pretty weak, and if it's what you want to play, i have concerns that you may become frustrated with the overall ineffectualness of the class.

There are a few fixes, but most of what I've seen is still a bit clunky and more problems will arise than need be.

If you are that into the class though where you're willing to play as is, than I guess you can go for it. But if you have something else in mind which you feel will suit you better, like the binder, which is good, or the truenamer, which needs a little altering, (that i can send you) you might want to go with that.

In general, shadowcaster is a good idea, but it doesn't work, and I really don't have the motivation to make it work unless it's something you seriously want.

[Deekin]

jolith said:

Hmm. Yeah, I was wondering about their ability to hold their own. Just doesn't seem like they get enough to compare to that of a sorcerer/wizard.

Have you seen either the Truenamer or the Binder in action, Deekin? Just curious on their relative power also.

TZS, also was wondering on your limitations on the Tome of Battle too.

Binder is fine powerwise, and cool too. Truenamers NEED magic items to keep up, and with the reduced amount of wealth the we get, might be a bit nerfed.

Mouseferatu (Real Name: Ari Marmell, look at the credits for the shadowcaster) posted some quick fixes a while ago

1) Charisma determines the DC to save against your mysteries. Intelligence determines the highest level mystery you can cast.

2) Grant bonus mysteries per day based on Charisma. These would work just like bonus spells. For instance, if your Cha is 14, you can cast one extra mystery of 1st-level equivalent and one of 2nd-level equivalent per day. (Note that each mystery does give an equivalent level, even though you don't learn them by level.)

3) Eliminate the rule that says you have to take mysteries in a given Path in order. If you want to jump around, so as to broaden your versatility, you can.

4) Within a category—Apprentice, Initiate, Master—you must have at least two mysteries of any given level before you can take any mysteries of the next higher level. For instance, you must have two 1st-level mysteries before you can take any 2nds, and at least two 2nds before you can take any 3rds.

5) Eliminate the rule that says you get a bonus feat equal to half the number of paths you have access to. Instead, you get a bonus feat equal to the total number of Paths you complete. Thus, while you are no longer required to take the entirety of a given Path, there's still encouragement to do so.

6) You may “swap out” mysteries, just as a sorcerer does spells known. If you “un-complete” a Path in this way, however, you lose access to the bonus feat you gained from completing that Path. (You can regain access by re-completing the Path, completing a different Path and choosing that feat as your new bonus, or selecting that feat as a normal feat at your next opportunity.)

7) Once your Apprentice Mysteries become supernatural abilities, change the save DC from 10 + equivalent spell level + Cha to 10 + 1/2 caster level + Cha. This makes them useful even against high-HD opponents, and follows the pattern for other supernatural abilities.

[Lin]

deekin said:

Mouseferatu (Real Name: Ari Marmell, look at the credits for the shadowcaster) posted some quick fixes a while ago

Unforunately, its a terrible fix. It doesn't solve any of the real problems with the class, doesn't work within the rules of the class (or propose a significant change to the class) and gets rid of one of the most charming aspect of the class (talent tree style progression). It gives a couple more powers a day, grants some flexibility that, given the classes original design is likely unwanted and fixes a formulaic goof that shouldn't have existed to begin with.

A real fix would need to solve the problems with grossly uneven power growth, lack of long scale impact and lack of breadth. I haven't seen or been able to devise one that works in a satisfactory fashion. Modified recharge mechanics were probably the best I've seen, but at high levels it seems problematic.

While it might be pointlessly complicated, I think the ideal system might indeed be a recharge system where each power has its own individual recharge time entry. The more powerful abilities could be [1 day] keeping them in check and the more generic ones would have a d4 or something, being based on the power rather then the power's level. This would keep lots of thoughtfulness in picking powers, as you'd want some of the bigger hitters, but also some that can be used consistently, giving the class a unique feel, picking between all day abilities and 1/day abilities.

[Toptomcat]

Binder is especially fun to gestalt with.

[TheZebraShakes™]

We're at a pause and leveling characters up.

Does anyone want to join up with us or are there any former players who want to bring back their old characters.

Again, if there is any interest, let me know and we can talk.

Always looking for more motivated players.

[MaestroXC]

I'd like to join in; how many current active players are there, 5?

Zain, Paul, Barrett, Karnoch, Lance?

[TheZebraShakes™]

There should be six
Zain, Paul, Barrett, Karnoch, Lance, and Frodo.

I'm using the level up time as a way to make certain that everyone is still with us.

If you'd like to join up, take a look at the characters, the character creation rules, and the People and Places thread in the maps and handouts section just to get a feel for what's been transpiring.

I can address questions and concerns here or via PM and you can work on a character and we'll come up with a way to introduce you to the current group.

A quick recap of the game for anyone who wants to know
-The group decides that they want to start a thieves' guild in a large city
-They know that they need money and they will start having to figure out who their rivals are
-they attempt to make some money by robbing a nobleman
-they fail due to a lack of communication
-They befriend a woman who helps them identify easy targets and potential rivals.
-They grift a bit to pick up some extra cash.
-They scout out a low ranking neighborhood gang with poor organization
-They kill the gang leader and one of his inner circle
-Some got away
-There will be hell to pay.

Now a new incoming character need not know of any of the info above, unless one would like to be introduced to the game as one of the friends or acquaintances of another of the characters. In this case, you might want to speak with the player of choice and see if you can't work something out as to how you know each other and what info was shared.

If you have any speciffic ideas as to what part you would like to play or how you would like to be introduced into the game, I'm pretty open to anything.

So yeah, if you still want to play, throw some character ideas together and see if you can come up with something and we'll get working on getting you into the game as quickly as possible.

Also, please be advised that there is no preset plot or predetermined campaign going on here. You will be forced to make your own decisions as to which courses of action you would like to take, who you would like to speak with, where you will go, what you will be doing, etc. . . to some this is daunting, which is why I like to have as many active players as possible as there will always be someone to bounce ideas off of. The game works best when character interaction is near 100 per cent.

[TheUdjat]

Maestro! Join us! We desperately need a tank! We're all wussy rogues and arcane casters.

[Rojito]

Hey i resent that! i am worse i am a bard 8-)m

[Deekin]

rojito said:

Hey i resent that! i am worse i am a bard 8-)m

Exactly- The bard is both a rouge and a Arcane caster, and you definitely qualify as a wussy.

And Zain is not exactly a rouge, missing key things like Trapfinding, uncanny dodge, open lock, disable device.

Granted, he can now stab people in the brain, so that should help.

[TheZebraShakes™]

You get no tanks. glass jaws all the way.

Everyone in the game is going to be a rogue from now on. No sneak attack damage for anyone.

And bards get eye lasers

[TheUdjat]

deekin said:

rojito said:

Hey i resent that! i am worse i am a bard 8-)m

Exactly- The bard is both a rouge and a Arcane caster, and you definitely qualify as a wussy.

And Zain is not exactly a rouge, missing key things like Trapfinding, uncanny dodge, open lock, disable device.

Granted, he can now stab people in the brain, so that should help.

d6 HD
3/4 BAB
Reflex favored
Sneak Attack
High Hide, Move Silently, Tumble

...Yep. You're a rogue.

[Deekin]

theudjat said:

deekin said:

Exactly- The bard is both a rouge and a Arcane caster, and you definitely qualify as a wussy.

And Zain is not exactly a rouge, missing key things like Trapfinding, uncanny dodge, open lock, disable device.

Granted, he can now stab people in the brain, so that should help.

d6 HD
3/4 BAB
Reflex favored
Sneak Attack
High Hide, Move Silently, Tumble

...Yep. You're a rogue.

With the abilty to backstab people with MY MIND!