Abandon Ship! Abandon Ship!

[sageaqua]

we will see if we can get out now.

[(George) 3.5./ ZEM ( 4.0)]

( ??)

"Ok i agree We have to destroy the object and only then will it send us back home when that happens it might come down quite hard so we need to brace and blot outside as fast as we can. So we find the would be exit, and smash this thing to bits thats best plan we got thus far.

As to the libary are we sure were strong enough as sence of our current abilty wise to still remain here ? I know what books mean to you, and im all for helping u get them but lets not stay and longer then that get get the books and finish the plan. We had too many fights in this forsaken place already and i rather magic books not flying at us etc. I rather not be attack in the libary or in general . Shamious do know thats on lone until we are out of here, i wish u had something ka'lion would trade you for but maybe we can do that when we get out of here."

[sageaqua]

"You already have something I consider worth trading for it. Your help getting the library. I think it's a fair trade. Once I get home I can trade the library for the magic items to be cammisioned. It's more then fair. What we don't have is a way to transport it. So we will just take one book with us and return for the rest. We just need to pick the right book. Search for books that sound like they would intrest necromancers. A polymorph any object spell should be able to save all the books. Although a stone to flesh spell might work but I think the spell would need to be modified first. But I agree about getting out of here. We are to weak to contenue this match. And perhaps my father and mother can telaport the library back home for us. Taking a stone book with us provides proof of what we found." said Ka'lion

[at]

The books in the hidden room seem the most solid - they almost have colour to them unlike the books beyond that have a chalk-like feel to their surface. From what little the group have seen the whole building becomes slightly less solid as they move away from this room as the walls, or perhaps what was once paint or wax, flakes away into dust on touch.

George speculates that, even smashed, the amulet might retain a little of its preservative power. Else once the bond to the plane is broken this building will likely suffer a similar fate to the stone forest they found outside. Given a choice of a single book the biggest, heaviest slab of bound and petrified stone seemed like the best bet.


First problems first however, the party must navigate the golem once more to reach the exit.

[sageaqua]

Ka'lion tries to shoot the golem with his str bow
-2 lack of stegth sword, - 2 weakness +2 rage-2 to use bow+5 lvl +xR7XUXFjp_1-20=27

damage
p_1-8-4=21-20�1-8

[at]

The arrow strikes the construct cleanly and snaps against its stone frame. The golem turns towards the attack but seems unable to enter the room.

[sageaqua]

"Goerge get the book." says Ka'lion returning the neckless to it's former location. "Sermins and me will be the blockers. If the books are just going to dissapear we will need to carry as many out with us as we can. Of course they may disapear anyway but the books in here are likely spellbooks. We will take as many with us as we can carry by ourselves. Put them next to the front door. Semious we are going to try to knock that thing down the stairs or over the railing. My dragon sword and your short sword should be able to hurt it. We wll make as many trips up and down the stairs as we need to. Healing the party up to full as we get the opertunity to do so. The last trip I will destroy the amulet and run to the door and we will open the door if we don't see our way back Goerge will cast demension door on us and well take our chances. Agreed?

[(George) 3.5./ ZEM ( 4.0)]

" i cant cast that yet, we never finished our rest i only ever have one its why its the go to excape plan shamious and i set up a while back u tought me running from fights is ok i just found well a faster way then out running them .

Anyway So most my spells even to make best for healing are lowish. And your still both in weakened states. Its why i wanted restoraton or lesser version of it, but well so stupid dick with zombies decided they did not want us here. "

[at]

As a cleric George does not need a restful night to memorise spells - he simply needs to wait a couple of hours and spend time in meditation.
Of course the house and it's occupants may not be done with the party yet.

(how does the party wish to navigate the golem, or perhaps they wish to try the other door - Shamious has already poked at it to check a potential escape route and believes it is locked, but not barred or barricaded)

[sageaqua]

"I'd love to exspore the place for victims and treasure ( this is my ideal type of treasure chest)- - minus the outer plane and unstable scruture that only is a phantom structure) but at this point Ka'lion and Goerge are more concerned about living long enough to get out. The ghost crippled Ka'lion and if we find another one he's as good as dead and considering his haratage he'd know ghosts don't die - they just return in a few days. Ka'lion is honestly thinking about charging the golem to take both of them over the rails - which would most likely kill him. Ka'lion has come to the conclusion this detaur was a waste of time. Yes we can fight but both Goerge and Ka'lion prefer to exsplore to fighting. As I read the place no matter what we find we will not be allowed to keep it. That doesn't mean we wont try but it is likely a waste of time.
Taking the other passage down in the parties weakened state sounds like a likely total party kill to me - we could end up trapped which would just make this worse as we are already trapped with no way out that we can see - it's all guess work and neither of us have any skill in the outer planes- go outside we are on another plane something neither of us like because we want to be able to get home. The only way to navagate the golem considering we most likely can't hurt it is to run by it and just take the damage.

That's how Ka'lion read the place. How does Goerge read things?

[at]

Feb 9, 2017 11:47:41 GMT -5 sageaqua said:

1) Ka'lion is honestly thinking about charging the golem to take both of them over the rails - which would most likely kill him.
2) Yes we can fight but both Goerge and Ka'lion prefer to exsplore to fighting / As I read the place no matter what we find we will not be allowed to keep it.

1) No rails on this floor, only the top floor, but you could try to bull-rush it onto the stairs. Falling damage would be 1d6.

2) It's actually a bit of a 'puzzle dungeon' - traps, attrition from minor enemies with more powerful adversaries that can be avoided or defeated using things found around the house. The library for instance would normally be accessed from the other door, using the key from the ballroom (after dealing with the other threats and puzzles up to that point). There is a win condition but it takes some work to reach.


==================

The main problem with Ka'lions exploring is it's very much computer game 'exploring' (aka loot every chest, shelf, bookcase, corpse, safe, vase, etc until you hit your encumbrance limit, and then buy mules). The game balance could be adjusted to work with this higher wealth level but there has to be some motivation for the party to work to a goal beyond monty-hauling.

Assuming I adjust the game for a higher power/wealth level - what would motivate Ka'lion and George to actual adventure?

[sageaqua]

I doesn't have to be a problem - but when you attack the parties weakest defences - they wont take chances - not this party at least - with Ka'lion normal strength he has a 12 - currently he has a 7 I think. It will take him 5 days of attacks to get that back unless Goerge burns up upper level spells to fix the party. I love pzzle box games - in fact they are my favorite type of game to play because they force me to be creative - but I don't like demensional games - I never have. I've had to many charcters die off world and there is nothing I can do about i.t - so Ka'lion takes as much as he can carry until he can trade or sell it to someone that needs it. But he's been taken advantage of in every trade hes made. Goerge and Ka'lion have refused to enter other planes in every encounter. From the beginning I've wanted a bag of holding a quiver and a haversack and bracers for Ka'lion. He wouldn't need mules or horses if he had them. Does he loot everything he wants not even close to it. Ka'lion is offended by useful things being left that is left to rot - so he collects whatever he finds because he never finds anything he wants.

As far as montyhauling - Goerge and Ka'lion entered the box to look around and see if someone needs help.( a good act ) So far the only thing they have found are undead and contructs trying to kill them. But they have been so badly crippled they are not looking anymore. When you burn up this parties spells or health the party retreats and hides. Ka'lions brave when he thinks - it's hopeless and that's just not Ka'lion. Now I never play video games at all. I like chess, backgammon, risk and role playing games.

You had a perfect game adventure in this place but once this parties criplled they don't care anymore.

[at]

Feb 9, 2017 16:11:13 GMT -5 sageaqua said:

I doesn't have to be a problem - but when you attack the parties weakest defences - they wont take chances - not this party at least / You had a perfect game adventure in this place but once this parties criplled they don't care anymore.

I think therein lays the problem, it is very hard to find a challenge for this party that they do not either flatten easily or fold to... especially when it's all doom and deathwishes again with things like the construct guard - you've got over 100 hitpoints between you, the key to the exit, and a literal sack full of healing potions so the party could flounce back and forth past the construct with no real risk at all.


Hence the question of whether playing at a higher power level with more spells, items, and special abilities would suit you better or if you just need very very lightweight encounters for your level.
I'd run a pre-written but all of the level 4-7 TSR stuff looks like the Tomb of Horrors compared to this place.

[sageaqua]

I'm perfectly happy to use most of the potions up, but they where hard to get and they are Goerges potions and with sacking spells to cast cure spells easily forgotten. As far as 100 hit points or more - neither of us like loosing hit points but Kalion was designed to loose his. All it takes to kill this party is 5 hits or less each, we are fighting things that can hit us 3 times a round and we can't fight back. You made this a point buy game and I hate point buy - so I desided to exsparament by building a late game custom ranger with shapechange abilities. Personally I prefer soft ball encounters when we can't obsorb the looses. With a handful of monster we can't beet fighting fair. But when our abilities are attacked we can't repair the damage or recover fast enough to rest. As far as levels - ignore the parties written levels - they do not give a true reflection of the party ability. None of these charcters are meat sheilds. They don't have +4 to strength or at least not yet

Goerge is a 6/1 fighter, Ka'lion is a 5/ fighter and will be for 2 more levels and Samious is a 4 level fighter. That's the math that matters - which means Goerge can attack twice for ever round he takes - so is hitting twice and being hit 3 times, Ka'lion is hitting once and taking 3 hits and Samious is hitting once and taking 3 hits. That's just fighting a gorygole - in our crippled state - we are fuctionally 3/-3 or 2 3rd level fighters, 2 fighter and a 1st level. Then compair to the 4-7th level stuff - My bet is nearly every encounter is comparable to a class 4 or 5 oppenent ability wise. To fix the problem we need to jump 2 levels. Doom and gloom only accures when we are crippled or trapped in a hopeless fight we have little chance of winning. As far as hit points Ka'lion withdraws if he can when he has 1/2 hit points or less and do to the ghost sucking up 24 hit points from his con in a con attack - those points are not recoverable, Goerge and Samious have the same problem. Now lets look at the zombies

I asked how many I assume it was around 20 because you didn't say. Asumming Goerges turn works - no problem and Ka'lion doesn't like to kill undead if he has a choice in the matter. He didn't.
20 zombies which are hard for us to hit without good rolls - is about 300 total hit points with a 25% chance of hitting party wse. So that fight was a hopeless match if Goerge rolled poorly and he did.

Now the ghost was an easy kill if you could hit it but most of the fight we couldn't hit him because of the blockers - not a problem if we can move a big problem if we can't

Now we come to the golem, the bear rolled poorly with 24 attacks and did little damage when he did hit. That does not lend it's self to a party thinking they can hit it when the one cleam shoot breaks on impact

I realize we are not advancing fast enough to get back to the demon hunt and Ka'lion perfectly willing to let others die if he's facing a hopless match. But so far he needs to what until he can meet the requirements of the pristage class he's still trying qualify for. He still needs to be able to shapesift first thats as a druid next level but that level does not improve his fighting skills - although he will be able to hit better he will get hit more often then now because you loose use of your magic items protection in other forms. That's the simple math of fighting here. And I've been exspecting our levels to advance for months.

As far as the Key: If the place ia a grand illusion like Ka'lion currently thinks it is. All he needs to do is break a stone window and through the lokect outside. he doesn't need to break it at all. The building dissapeares and anything real is left behind including the locket. So if their is someone that needs help that's the best way to find them. But until Goerge respons I'm still working on it.

[sageaqua]

Just another note: if this place was stable and real after getting home Ka'lion would of wanted to come back and exsplore somemore but it does sound like he'll be able to do that.

[at]

Feb 10, 2017 2:17:08 GMT -5 sageaqua said:

Doom and gloom only accures when we are crippled or trapped in a hopeless fight we have little chance of winning.

Statistically speaking if someone had full-defended at the door they would have taken an average of half a hitpoint of damage per turn.

The zombies didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell - that you struggle with it at 7th level is why i'm considering the power jump if it will get your characters over this sticking point they seem to be at.

Feb 10, 2017 2:27:34 GMT -5 sageaqua said:

Just another note: if this place was stable and real after getting home Ka'lion would of wanted to come back and exsplore somemore but it does sound like he'll be able to do that.

You can do, it's not an illusion. Once the key is smashed the building falls entirely into the material plane, the 'hard' (planar-based) part of the adventure is cut free and you can spend a month sifting through the rubble - is that really the kind of game you want?

[sageaqua]

Ka'lion wanted to exspore the place - not a dungeon crawl - you cant use a sword in a dungeon crawl if you need it and we would need a lot of hired help to dig it out. But I suppose Indeana Jones has it's own appeal.

[at]

Feb 10, 2017 9:10:19 GMT -5 sageaqua said:

Ka'lion wanted to exspore the place - not a dungeon crawl - you cant use a sword in a dungeon crawl if you need it and we would need a lot of hired help to dig it out. But I suppose Indeana Jones has it's own appeal.

Unfortunately in D&D an 'exploration crawl' is a lot of search, spot, climb, balance, jump, tumble, use rope, and swim rolls with a little knowledge, disable device, and spellcraft to add flavour (and danger).

I'm not sure that translates well into play by post unless you have a DM and players with a lot of free time to write and read through long descriptive locations, "you crawl through the hole into another cave" won't really cut it.

-------------

But i'm open to suggestions from the pair of you now that you aren't with Vadania and Brennen or tied to the demon storyline.

If you, for instance decide to go questing for a bag of holding - what would you be expecting your characters to do? And if the answer is "I trade this random item I found to my grandmother for one" - then what do you do next?
What kind of combat do you look for? What kinds of traps, npcs, puzzles, or danger?

[sageaqua]

I think the search, check etc is just what Goarge and ka'lion ar looking for. Although Goarge and Samious would probly need to get rid of there armor so they can move undergrond. I think this random item I found to family is more accurate. Searching for a bag of holding is problamatic for us. The current owner might object and then we are out of luck. It's better to camision the stuff we want and if no one in the family wants it have someone telaport us to a place we can sell it. I like skill check as a rule. I prefer to fight living things. Although I don't want to be killing fae, dragons, celestrals the inacent,undead or go trophy hunting. But quest like "Ka'lion some people are in trouble and need your help - Burn notice, Leverage firefly or our neiber has a few crockdiles in the pool - move it to a safe location for the wildlife. Or I'd like for you to capture a few gargyles or golems for me. That's all fine. I just don't like killing things if we don't need to. Ka'lion honey there is a few dragons that need to be talked with in the area. I'd like to send your group as ambasadoors or as escorts. Around 12th level - honey there are signs your demon hunt is in the area. Can you look into it please? There has been a town hit by storms. They need to stop. etc. Puzzles, traps, npcs and danger are all fine. Just remember we are not coming to kill something if it can be avoided. A kidnapping job to rescue someone s fine for combat because their is a point to it. The party can hirer a theif or mage or bard depending on what the party needs. One of the skulls wants to go on vacation to claim some loot they hid before they died - use your imaganation -

[(George) 3.5./ ZEM ( 4.0)]

I will point out i have read all of this so far: I wont be able to respond until sunday for i have a lot going on until sunday.


I can see we have had this come up a few times now and i want to help work on a solutions to that we can all enjoy game.

Once i make a list of what i like in games i can narrow down what ka'lions player and i have in common and i feel from what i know that quite a bit in common as far as what we want in game.